Politically Incorrect?

[skyking1976]

I got this in an email this morning. Thought I might share it with you fine folks...

Merry Christmas everybody!

For those who don't know General Hawley, he's a newly retired USAF 4-star
general. He commanded the USAF Air Combat Command [our front-line fighters
and bombers]. The Command headquarters is at Langley AFB, VA. General Hawley
is now retired and no longer required to be politically correct. His short
speech is very much to the point. The following are excerpts:


"Since the attack [9-11], I have seen, heard, and read thoughts of such
surpassing stupidity that they must be addressed. You've heard them too.
Here they are:

1) "We're not good, they're not evil, everything is relative." Listen
carefully: We're good, they're evil, nothing is relative. Say it with me
now and free yourselves. You see, folks, saying "We're good" doesn't mean,
"We're perfect." Okay? The only perfect being is the bearded guy on the
ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. The plain fact is that our country has, with
all our mistakes and blunders, always been and always will be the greatest
beacon of freedom, charity, opportunity, and affection in history. If you
need proof, open all the borders on Earth and see what happens.

2) "Violence only leads to more violence." This one is so stupid you usually
have to be the president of an Ivy League university to say it. Here's the
truth, which you know in your heads and hearts already: Ineffective,
unfocused violence leads to more violence. Limp, panicky, half-measures lead
to more violence. However, complete, fully thought-through, professional,
well-executed violence never leads to more violence because, you see,
afterwards, the other guys are all dead. That's right, dead. Not "on trial,"
not "reeducated," not "nurtured back into the bosom of love." Dead.
D-E --Well, you get the idea.

3) "The CIA and the rest of our intelligence community have failed us." For
25 years we have chained our spies like dogs to a stake in the ground, and
now that the house has been robbed, we yell at them for not protecting us.
Starting in the late seventies, under Carter appointee Stansfield Turner,
the giant brains who get these giant ideas decided that the best way to
gather international intelligence was to use spy satellites. "After all,
(they reasoned,) you can see a license plate from 200 miles away." This is
very helpful if you've been attacked by a license plate. Unfortunately, we
were attacked by humans. Finding humans is not possible with satellites. You
have to use other humans. When we bought all our satellites, we fired all
our humans, and here's the really stupid part. It takes years, decades to
infiltrate new humans into the worst places of the world. You can't just
have a guy who looks like Gary Busey in a Spring Break '93 sweatshirt plop
himself down in a coffee shop in Kabul and say "Hiya, boys. Gee, I sure
would like to meet that bin Laden fella. "Well, you can, but all you'd be
doing is giving the bad guys a story they'll be telling for years.

4) "These people are poor and helpless, and that's why they're angry at us."
Uh-huh, and Jeffrey Dahmer's frozen head collection was just a desperate cry
for help. The terrorists and their backers are richer than Elton John and,
ironically, a good deal less annoying. The poor helpless people, you see,
are the villagers they tortured and murdered to stay in power. Mohammed
Atta, one of the evil scumbags who steered those planes into the killing
grounds is the son of a Cairo surgeon. But you knew this, too. In the
sixties and seventies, all the pinheads marching against the war were
upper-middle-class college kids who grabbed any cause they could think of to
get out of their final papers and spend more time drinking. It's the same
today.

5) "Any profiling is racial profiling." Who's killing us here, the
Norwegians? Just days after the attack, the New York Times had an article
saying dozens of extended members of the gazillionaire bin Laden family
living in America were afraid of reprisals and left in a huff, never to
return to studying at Harvard and using too much Drakkar. I'm crushed.
Please come back. Let's all stop singing "We Are the World" for a minute and
think practically. I don't want to be sitting on the floor in the back of a
plane four seconds away from hitting Mt. Rushmore and turn, grinning, to the
guy next to me to say, "Well, at least we didn't offend them."

SO HERE'S what I resolve for the New Year: Never to forget our murdered
brothers and sisters. Never to let the relativists get away with their
immoral thinking. After all, no matter what your daughter's political
science professor says, we didn't start this. Have you seen that bumper
sticker that says, "No More Hiroshimas"? I wish I had one that says, "No
More Pearl Harbors."

 

[Typhoon1244]

I may not agree with everything in this letter, but I'm glad to see someone with some credibility say this out in the open:

Who's killing us here, the Norwegians? Just days after the attack, the New York Times had an article saying dozens of extended members of the gazillionaire bin Laden family living in America were afraid of reprisals and left in a huff, never to return to studying at Harvard and using too much Drakkar. I'm crushed. Please come back. Let's all stop singing "We Are the World" for a minute and think practically. I don't want to be sitting on the floor in the back of a plane four seconds away from hitting Mt. Rushmore and turn, grinning, to the guy next to me to say, "Well, at least we didn't offend them."

 

[skyking1976]

I may not agree with everything in this letter, but I'm glad to see someone with some credibility say this out in the open:

Just wondering, Typhoon, which part(s) don't you agree with?

 

[Typhoon1244]

Just wondering, Typhoon, which part(s) don't you agree with?

Well, just two parts, really.

(1) I do believe that the nation's intelligence and security folks dropped the ball on 9/11, and...

(2) I have a hard time with the word "evil." The General says "nothing is relative." That's a suprisingly narrow-minded opinion for a man of his stature. As he said, our nation is not perfect, and we have a long history of ignoring the sovereignty of "backward" third-world nations. That does not justify the murder of three thousand people, but we have to remember that this was not an unprovoked attack.

You can understand your enemy without forgiving them. And I submit that understanding the enemy's motives is absolutely necessary in a war like this. A "we're good/they're bad" attitude is too simple, and could lengthen the war.

Other than that, I think the General is right-on.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

I think this letter may be from the same source as that piece of work involving Al Gore, Norton and bin Ladden i.e. total bull$hit

 

[skyking1976]

(1) I do believe that the nation's intelligence and security folks dropped the ball on 9/11, and...

I think that the intent of...

For 25 years we have chained our spies like dogs to a stake in the ground, and
now that the house has been robbed, we yell at them for not protecting us.

...is intended as a failure from the administrative department of the CIA, NSA, etc. I interpreted his explanation as "We don't allow our spies to do their jobs."

I do agree with you, however, on your second point...

SK

 

[bart]

(1) I do believe that the nation's intelligence and security folks dropped the ball on 9/11, and...

Thank Senator Frank Church and his pals in the Carter Administration for castrating the Intelligence Community. It is the same Dudley Do-Right attitude that led to the Marine Barracks bombing in Beirut. We need to take off the leashes and let the pros go do their jobs, before the fact, not after. A couple of well placed bullets in Beirut would have prevented that attack, just as one or two before 9/11 would have prevented it, but that is all academic now.

They need to placing bullets now to prevent the next attack.

(2) I have a hard time with the word "evil." The General says "nothing is relative."

The General may have added "in my opinion". He sure stated resolutely what he believes, and this is a judgement call. I for one agree with him on this. Simply look at the type of control these terrorists want to exert on people (particularly women) to help make the distinction. I believe that we (the US) are called to higher principles than these people, and therefore are on the moral high ground.

One could argue they know nothing else or don't know better, well my answer it is time they learned, and learn they will. (See the General's comments on complete, well-executed violence).

 

[Timebuilder]

(2) I have a hard time with the word "evil."

Sorry to hear that. Sometimes evil seems benign, like the NEA taking over the agenda of the public schools, teaching about Islam (to foster "understanding") and rejecting any explanation of how Christmas got its name.

Sometimes it is more blatant, like on 9-11. There is no rationalizing this act. If anything, this foolishness will result in a great number of people being killed in a war that might not have happened, and a more civil discourse of complaints might have been reached. That is unlikely, though, since this is a Jihad against the Christian world, plain and simple. This, the most Christian nation on earth, is the the place where everyone wants to be. Unless you think France is the ultimate country, we are still number one. That makes us the target.

We will be victorious.

Freedom will be defended.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Let me put this another way...

"Evil."

We say they're evil. They say we're evil. You know which side is right? Both...and neither.

"Evil" is easy to define within a specific culture. But when two wildly different cultures interact, the definitions become arbitrary. In some Pacific island cultures, it's expected that a young woman's first sexual partner will be her father. It's they way the've been doing things for two thousand years or more. Is it evil? To us, yes, but our society and belief systems are very different from theirs.

Personally, I think "evil" has occurred when one person harms another for both personal gain and the sheer enjoyment of causing harm.

The 9/11 hijackers...I have as much hatred for them as anybody. It's incredibly frustrating to me that they died as a consequence of the attack. I'd like to see them suffer. But were they evil? Not by their standards. I'm sure they saw themselves as soldiers in a war. Defenders of their way of life. I can not and will not forgive them, but I try to understand them.

How about a red-blooded American Bible-thumper who blows up an abortion clinic and kills nineteen people? Is he "evil?"

 

[fLYbUDDY]

How about a red-blooded American Bible-thumper who blows up an abortion clinic and kills nineteen people? Is he "evil?"

YES!

 

[Typhoon1244]

YES!

Not everybody would agree with you. Many would (and do) argue that he was merely doing "God's work."

And if the bomber himself really believed that, I'd have a hard time calling him "evil." He thought he was doing the right thing.

(But he's still guilty of murder.)

 

[Timebuilder]

"Evil" is easy to define within a specific culture. But when two wildly different cultures interact, the definitions become arbitrary. In some Pacific island cultures, it's expected that a young woman's first sexual partner will be her father. It's they way the've been doing things for two thousand years or more. Is it evil? To us, yes, but our society and belief systems are very different from theirs.

That's as good an explanation of why we need to follow the Great Commission of Matthew 28 as I have ever heard.

The reason God gave the ten commandments to Moses, and further expanded on them through the Prophets, is that humans were making up their own morality as they went along. A child sex culture? "Who are we to judge?", comes the response. We are the people who have received God's word, and have been directed to spread it far and wide. We offer it, we do not force it, which is what hapens with Islam in many places. Rather than judge, we inform, and millions are being saved every year.

Better not tell Michael Jackson. He might buy one of the islands and start his own nation.

God does not divide Himself against Himself, so it appears that God favors Israel and it's supporters, those who follow Christ. The others will not be saved.

If this is true, (and I know that there is great disagreement about that) then it is a complete refutation of the Islamic world and Mohammed, and the ecumenical idea that all religious beliefs are somehow equivalent. It means that evil is what exists outside of God's directives, according to His Word, the Bible. Some evil things are small, like not observing the Sabbath. Some evil things are very large, like the attack of 9-11.

There is, however, a very clear line of good and evil that does not observe cultural lines, because we are ALL renters of these bodies, no matter where we live or what language we speak.

We all belong to God.

Even those who say they do not.

 

[Timebuilder]

How about a red-blooded American Bible-thumper who blows up an abortion clinic and kills nineteen people? Is he "evil?"

YES, he has done evil.

Even if he is a believer, he will have to answer for what he has done.

There is no Biblical support for the idea that "he is doing God's work".

Zero.

 

[bart]

We say they're evil. They say we're evil. You know which side is right?

Yes, we are. No doubt about it. This is not gray, though those of you that have been successfully indoctrinated in America's apologist, let's feel guilty because our system is so superior to all the others in the world educational and media system may think so.

What is evil about freedom? Nothing I know of.

What is evil about subjugation of women? Killing your sister because she wants to date someone, totally evil.

Is America perfect? No. Are American ideals superior to those of the terrorists? Absolutely and unequivocally yes.

Anyone want to argue specifics rather than platitudes, bring it on...

 

[Typhoon1244]

What is evil about subjugation of women? Killing your sister because she wants to date someone, totally evil.

I agree with you because I am an American.

If you were a fundamentalist Muslim Iranian, you wouldn't think the things you described were evil at all.

In the end, it doesn't matter who calls who "evil." It's irrelevant.

What is relevant is making sure we are victorious. And since new terrorists are born every day, and since every one of our smaller victories fuels their resolve...

(...this is not going to sound very politically correct...)

...our only recourse may be to kill them all. Take a couple of wings of B-52's, and have them start dropping nukes in Pakistan, continue westward to Syria, then swing around and not stop until they get to Yemen.

It's tough to fight an idea with aircraft carriers and cruise missiles. The only way to completely eliminate terrorism in the name of Islam is to eliminate all those who hold those beliefs: genocide.

And to be honest with you, since 9/11, I've had that thought quite a few times. Sort of conflicts with my other beliefs about humanity!

(If that sounds scary, relax: it's the only really wacko far-right-wing belief I have. And no, I don't go around throwing rocks at middle easterners. I have friends from over there...of course, none of them are terrorists.)

 

[bart]

I agree with you in principle Typhoon, however a free, prosperous and democratic Iraq that offers education and equal protection under the law might go a long way towards giving the residents of the Middle East a better idea. I am sure the Imams will fight it tooth and nail because it means the end of their political power.

In the end, that is what the whole fight is all about, the Imams see that as secular political systems develop, they lose power, so lets kill the impure. Too bad for them (the Imams) that their backward way of ruling leaves them without the combat power to win. In 100 years they will be long forgotten other than as an object lesson in what happens when you try to deprive humans of freedom.

 

[secks]

I think this letter may be from the same source as that piece of work involving Al Gore, Norton and bin Ladden i.e. total bull$hit

It's bull$hit because you disagree with his points. Why don't you just go back to eating tofu, practicing your lamaze, and treating that massive yeast infection you've got down there.

skyking1976:

Great post.

The idea of all nations coexisting peacefully is the dream of a child.

The word "evil" is what we Americans use to brand our enemies. It's a completely subjective, culturally-biased process, and that's not a bad thing. Americans need to be concerned with national survival, not world opinion. As such, Candian, Arab and European opinions of American foreign policy are irrelevant. That's not to say that I support our involvement in the Middle East. If we hadn't been supporting Israel with billions of dollars in foreign aid, it's very likely that 9/11 never would have occurred.
But now that it has occurred, we need to concern ourselves with eliminating our enemies.

Originally posted by Typhoon1244
(If that sounds scary, relax: it's the only really wacko far-right-wing belief I have. And no, I don't go around throwing rocks at middle easterners. I have friends from over there...of course, none of them are terrorists.)

Don't fall over yourself trying to appear moderate. You may very well be correct that the only true solution is genocide by bombing. The "peaceful" alternative (conquer, reindoctrinate, etc.) has an extremely hefty pricetag, and might fail.

 

[Eagleflip]

Wrong Again

Well, congrats.

You've managed to take off on a tangental argument involving God, General Hawley, and the entire population of Muslim believers based on a false pretense. This original story is false--investigate the truth here

In short--
General Hawley said of the words now mistakenly attributed to him:

There is a piece zooming around the internet that attributes some pretty forceful statements to me, Dick Hawley - one time fighter pilot, General, thoughtful consultant, neophyte strategist, master of the artful compromise. The words did not flow from my pen, but if the e-mails mean anything, those words are now indelibly linked to my name. So do me a favor - if you receive this, please send it on to the same people to whom you forwarded the one that I did not write. It's not that I don't share many, if not most, of the sentiments attributed to me, but the piece is just not my style.
Here's what I would have said if I'd been asked to comment on those five important issues.

1) Goodness, Evil and Relativity: There are some really good people in this world. They volunteer to help those who need it, and ask nothing in return. There are also some really bad people in this world. They exploit those who need help, or who have less wit or "charisma", and motivate them to join in committing unspeakable acts of cruelty against people they don't even know. Then there are the rest of us. Average people who try each day to do no harm, to provide for their families, to do an occasional act of kindness. The evil that was perpetrated against our land on 9/11 was the product of Mullahs who see our prosperity and power as a threat to their control over the uneducated Muslim masses on whose shoulders they ride through life. And so they preach hate. They are evil.

2) Violence begets violence: It's true. Violence does beget violence. But sometimes there is no alternative but to confront those who would perpetrate evil acts against us. This is one of those times. We are blessed to have courageous men and women willing to put their lives on the line to track down and annihilate those who have been so imbued with evil as to be beyond redemption. But violence is not a strategy. It is a necessary and fully justified reaction to an unimaginable threat. But it is not a strategy. If we are to win this war, we must defeat the Mullahs. And to defeat the Mullahs, we must find ways to separate them from their uneducated flocks. We cannot kill all those who have been taught to hate us, nor should we wish to. Far better to change their minds than to change their state of being.

3) The intelligence community let us down: Well, maybe just a little. Lots of senior and not so senior intelligence people became just as enamored of high tech gadgets as their political masters. The protests over our evisceration of the human intelligence component of the agency were not very loud or forceful. Keeping spies on the ground is a high risk and often dirty business, and it wasn't just liberal politicians who didn't have much stomach for it.

4) Poverty is the breeding ground for terrorists: No, it isn't; but religious extremism is. The Mullahs fear our wealth and power because it shows that a secular society with democratic institutions and a free market economy can do a better job of taking care of its peoples' needs, both spiritual and physical, than the oppressive Islamic regimes that they aspire to lead. The Mullahs are the problem, not poverty, but poverty does make it easier for the Mullahs to spread their evil - as do governments that tolerate and even reinforce their hateful message.

5) Profiling: We are at war here! We are not talking about traffic stops. If we were at war with Iceland, I would expect those charged with our defense to pay very close attention to any Icelander who ventured near our shores. In this war I expect them to pay very close attention to Muslims with ties to the places that spew hatred against us. Random checks when there are no such obvious targets available are a good way to keep the evil ones guessing, but let's not make small children and grandmothers take their shoes off while we watch far more likely candidates walk aboard unchecked.

6) Resolutions:

a. Never forget that what happened on September the 11th of 2001 was an act of war.

b. Never sit silently by while someone tries to justify what happened on that day as an understandable reaction to U.S. policies in the Middle East or elsewhere.

c. Fly our nation's flag proudly - it represents this world's greatest hope to move beyond the pain and suffering that inflict so many across the globe.

Richard E. Hawley
General, USAF, Retired
Former Commander, Air Combat Command

 

[Typhoon1244]

Now that sounds more like an Air Force general.

I'm glad we got that cleared up...or did we?

 

[skyking1976]

Sounds better to me too. Yet another sucker born unto an urban legend.... Oh well, I'm glad that's cleared up.

SK