Please stuff it and move on...

[Traumahawk]

From another thread...

You obviously don't follow the industry.

WE RAISED THE BAR BY STRIKING FOR 89 DAYS. THEN MESA, CHATACO, AND SKYWHORE PILOTS STABBED US IN THE BACK AND PUT US IN THE SITUATION WE ARE IN.
WHAT AN IDIOT YOU ARE TO SAY SUCH A THING.
TOTALLY OBLIVIOUS.

And you didn't stab Delta mainline pilots in the back when you were enjoying massive growth, flying regional jets on mainline routes while working for crumbs before the strike??

It wasn't all that long ago when this board wasn't regionals flipping each other the bird inbetween finger pointing and whining. It was Mainline pilots bashing regionals for flying their lines.

Yea yea, we've all heard the scope relief story. Perhaps you have a point.

But wasn't it ComAir who led the way through the stinking dump of the regional jet boom?? Please stop for ONCE and take responsibility for part of this mess. You gave everyone the idea, and here we are today. One strike and good second year F/O pay doesn't fix the fact that your airline was more involved in the roots of this problem than any of the carriers you blame for your woes.

To be sure, I have a lot of friends at Comair, work for CHQ, and we all fly regional jets for laughable wages. I can't wait to get out and neither can they...perhaps there will be something to move on to. Thats another matter. For now, Comair, stop with the holier-than-thou stuff and deal with the events of today.

A select few of you have milked the 'we held the bar' stuff bone dry. Lets not forget you signed that contract as you rode the trailing end of the decade's most fruitful and explosive period for the aviation industry...

Enough, please.

T-Hawk

 

[xjcaptain]

Not to start a flame, but people seem to have very short memories...or were in grade school when this happened. How many remember when Comair paved the way with pay for training. How many of the senior people there today are screaming to be paid and treated as professionals, but paid for their jobs as new-hires. Unfortunatly they have prooven to management years ago that they were willing to work for nothing. Why would it seem suprising that they would want to look for a new group to contract flying with that are willing to do the same. I hope that it works out for everyone at comair, but the current backslide we are in today started years ago. There have always been places to go that didn't require pay for training, but it was more difficult to get hired.

 

[imacdog]

The regional jet boom was the result of management deciding to put regional jets into service. The mainline pilots decided they didn't want to fly them, management put more of them into service and on routes already flown by mainline, and the regional pilots at Comair worked hard to increase their working conditions and pay. They succeeded, and are now in bankruptcy trying to hold on to what they have left, while being compared (and competing) against regionals whose pilots fly the same equipment (notice the difference there between the mainline-regional argument?) for less money. So you might see why Comair and ASA pilots (who are having their aircraft transferred to a company that pays their pilots less) might not be in the best of moods lately. The job of the pilots is not to take credit for management operating regional jets, it's their job to secure the best working conditions and pay that they can. Sorry someone pissed in your cheerios this morning; try not to take everyone said on this board so personally.

 

[mac36]

The mainline pilots decided they didn't want to fly them, .

Really? When did that happen? Didn't want to fly them or didn't want to fly them on the cheap?

Funny, when Piedmont Airlines (the original "Mainline" Piedmont that merged into US Air) was flying 65-75 passenger F-28s, nobody was calling them Regional Jets.

Like someone indicated above, this dead horse has already been beaten. What went around did indeed come around. That's probably enough cliches for one paragraph.

 

[imacdog]

As in, didn't want to fly them. Just like they didn't want to fly turboprops. Look at what happened with the latest Delta vote - they are more than happy to give away flying to larger and larger aircraft. Didn't the Northwest pilots vote to start a new regional company to fly planes that will replace the DC-9? Why didn't they take the opportunity to get those on property? As long as mainline pilots vote for larger and larger equipment to be farmed out, the whole piloting profession is going to suffer.

 

[SkyNation]

The job of the pilots is not to take credit for management operating regional jets, it's their job to secure the best working conditions and pay that they can.

I agree, but would add 'while maintaining the overall health and sustainability of the airline, providing opportunity to compete in an ever changing and ever more challenging environment.'

what good is a an 'industry leading contract' (I'm not being specific to anyone's) if your airlines loses flying, furloughs, closes bases, and dwindles? how do you weigh those things against one another?

I'm not bashing, just looking for insight. BTW, I agree that pilots are pissed seing their flying to go pilots who make less. However, there is a lot to the equation. I'm sure a cement contractor feels the same when he is underbid, or an attorney, or a car salesman, or anyone else who participates in the market economy.

 

[imacdog]

What good is an industry leading contract? Well besides the obvious better pay and working conditions, it gives unions at other companies a chance to also attain those pay and working conditions, and potentially exceed them, providing better jobs for everyone in the industry. When others don't follow then having an industry-leading contract can be detrimental, especially at a regional, where the competition is not for passengers, but trying to kiss the butt of the major airline it flies for. Let the managers worry about where the flying goes, and worry about making your job as good as it can be, and this industry will improve. Deny an opportunity to improve the money you bring home to your family because you want your company to gain flying an no one wins.

 

[bvt1151]

Trauma,

Interesting title to this thread considering you created it, and then told everyone to stop talking about it.

 

[Launchpad]

Imac.... Don't listen to the crew bus talk too much. It's not so much that the mainline guys didn't want them (70 seaters and above) but Delta that doesn't want them at mainline.

We are all just pawns in the game, we'd love to have 70 seaters at mainline. Delta went from 10,300 pilots to 6500 pilots in the last few years, still with Lawson and the RJDC bafoons still yelling about scope relief with consistant hiring at Comair after 9/11.

Not trying to get in a public pissing contest, but there are 2 sides to every story.

Launchpad