Please someone explain it for me.

[CUEBOAT]

THIS ISNT FLAMEBAIT

I've been flying for almost 3 year sand have always heard how Mesa is Satan. I have never been able to get an answer. Also why is Freedow considered worse? Please dont turn this into a Mesa/Freedom bashing fest. I want a history lesson.

 

[aviatrix]

3 years now, huh? Mesa is not Satan. There's just five guys on this board who love to b%#ch about Mesa, ad nauseum.

Just read previous threads. They all say the same thing..........over and over and over.......

 

[labbats]

...and over...

 

[On Your Six]

Mesa isn't Satan. John Ornstein, its CEO, is Satan.

 

[SkylerS]

Mesa isn't Satan. John Ornstein, its CEO, is Satan.

I disagree. Ornstein did his job, it's the pilots who agreed to the contract. Although I consider Mesa a threat to our ability to maintain a good wage, I have to applaud him (in a way) for what he has done. If I was a business owner asking someone to work for x% lower than others and it's agreed upon, why should I be willing to pay more?

The pilots are allowing him to make money. It's they who should be making it, but it requires backbone.

The problem is we (or is it "us) pilots.

--Sky

 

[Speedtree]

John Orenstein did get the pilots to agree to a substandard contract but that doesn't make him a good CEO. His company is certainly doing well as far as growth is concerned but there is more to a good company than that.

As far as Mesa is concerned they are perceived by many to be the lowest paid regional pilots. Whether this is true or not I do not know. They fly for a number of airline partners and have one of the largest regional airline companies out there. John O. uses many tactics to run an inexpensive operation. I work for Air Wisconsin and here is my story. We had one of the best contracts in the industry until United Airlines declared bankruptcy and came to us for concessions in a renegotiated agreement. Our company then convinced us to agree to pay cuts to help meet these new demands. United opened up the bidding for all regional flying to any and all comers (or so we are to believe) so we were competing for our then current and future flying with the lower cost regionals like Mesa, TransStates, Chitauqua (sp?), etc.

John O. was starting to aquire new crj's and staff them with non-union pilots under a company called Freedom Air. This put pressure on the Mesa pilots to sign a new contract (they were in negotiations with the company since their last contract ran out) which was not up to the industry leading standard of AWAC, COMAIR, ACA etc. Part of the new contract absorbed Freedom into Mesa and guaranteed in some form that John O would not do this sort of thing again. I guess most people's problem with Mesa is that they voted in the new contract without much of a fight. Comair actually went on strike, Air Wisconsin took their negotiations to the point of strike approval and actually signed the new contract within minutes of a strike. Mesa pilots voted for the first agreement proposed and ALPA, the union for most of us regionals, went along with it. This just makes it that much easier for United and our management to put pressure on us to give up pay so we can compete with Mesa. We wish Mesa would have put up more of a fight. I don't envy the Mesa pilots and the decision they had to make or the fact that they work for Mesa in the first place. Air Wisconsin pilots also gave in pretty quickly to our company's demands so it's just another example of the crazy life of a union and an airline.

I guess the bottom line is whether people think long term or short term, their perception of the industry, and what they think a pilot is worth. Mesa is basically just another low cost carrier doing it cheaper than the next guy. We just wish their pilots wouldn't help them out so much. The same reason not all UAL, AA, DAL pilots like Southwest, AirTran, Frontier, etc.

Again this is from my perspective and I believe my information is generally accurate. If not I apologize and I'm sure there are others who will readily set us straight.

 

[norskman2]

There are a few other things JO has done over the years to earn the King Satan label.

He has a history of taking over financially troubled regionals, stripping their assets and putting all the pilots out on the street (see WestAir, CCAir).

The new Mesa contract has some of the lowest pay and poorest QOL (min. 8 days off, no commuting policy, etc.). Yes, some prop regionals have lower pay, but they are generally much smaller than Mesa. It appears the new contract offered improvements over the previous contract in almost all areas -- pay, work rules -- but the improvements were marginal. The biggest problem was that if the union turned down the contract, flying simply would have been moved over to Freedom and the Mesa pilots would have lost their jobs.

I think it speaks volumes that all three of the majors that contract with Mesa -- United, USAir and America West -- have all been through bankruptcy, United and USAirways within the last two years.