Please Help Pilots Stuck In Brazil

[WabiSabi]

What would Thomas Jefferson be “laughing for”? The fact that his slaves weren’t with him? This father of do as I say not as I do liberalism lived an opulent lifestyle that even the back breaking labor of his farm working slaves couldn’t support. He died in a grave that he couldn’t even afford to be dug and couldn’t afford to free his slaves upon his death due to his massive debts (which he said he'd do). Monticello wasn’t even finished.



Thomas Jefferson was against centralized government, saw the future of this country as agrarian as opposed to industrial, and supported a VP (Burr) who murdered the most important founding father aside from Washington (yet more important in terms of creating the constitution and implementing it). How wrong can one man be? Shall I go on?

You picked the wrong war in the “r-e-v-o-l-u-t-i-o-n”. Those original patriots were fighting BRITISH, not subverting the AMERICAN government. Perhaps your hero’s are the 19th century foes of Abraham Lincoln from the south? You remember the CIVIL WAR? They more resemble your anti-American pals.

BACK to your original ill-conceived point: Do you fly internationally? I do a lot. Have you been to survival school for Naval Aviator’s? I have. These are both applicable because those of us out here flying to places with very backwards aviation systems don’t want to be in jeopardy like these poor souls in Brasil are. As a Navy pilot we were shown and taught the kind of treatment to expect if captured, based upon the experiences of real survivors of captivity. I tell you this: NOOONE would treat its prisoners better than the USA! Maybe if we go to war with Britain, Ireland, most of the EU, that’s about it, we’d get equal treatment. That leaves most of the countries on this planet that we would get no Geneva convention, a possible kangaroo court trial, but REAL torture, possible beheading, or hanging. That’s the reality dude.

Given these facts of the real world, to use the treatment of prisoners in GIT’MO to justify the imprisonment of these two Americans is flawed logic. We capture guys on the battlefield and are held by the military and run through that system, one upheld throughout the history of this country. It’s different from the protection that American citizens and foreigners get in our normal justice system.



We are fighting an enemy that laughs in the face of guys like you trying to show more respect to them than our own President. That’s why I see you as part of the problem.

You're way off. You obviously have some red white and blue chip on your shoulder involving some preconceived political agenda. I have a wake up call for you. If an opinion isn't in line with yours, it doesn't mean it is anti American. Where did you get that one? Rush Limbaugh? What trite mindless drivel.

I gave you a factual reference to a report on detainees (treatment AS WELL as the overwhelming number released because they were unjustly detained) in GITMO and all you do is come back with some specious and sanctimonious America can do no wrong nonsense. Now THAT is anti-American. You want to talk about flawed logic? When you can logically dispute the referenced report as well as my original point that our unjust detention of the majority of detainees at GITMO has an adverse effect on how other countries treat detained/imprisoned US citizens, then we'll talk. Until then, I'll ignore you. (it would help if you had a better grasp on history)

Judging from your words so far, I'm way more pro-America than you.

 

[FlickerFade]

I think that we each have made our points.

And since you're "way more American" than me, how can me and my Navy Officer self ever compete with that?!

I really hope that you fly a lot internationally and are subject to the dangerous precedent this Brazilian case could set. Because it would be pretty sad if you are playing hypothetical with us actually flying around the globe.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

You must understand that once in a foreign country, you are subject to THEIR local laws and to their judicial process. Especially when lives have been lost. There is not much the US Government or Unions can legally do (I speak as an ALPA Investigator) because they are under the juridiction of another country and being investigated in a possible case of negligence and manslaughter.

Sure there is a lot we can do.

Close the embassies and send them home.
stop air travel to and from Brazil.
Stop their imports at the port for "inspection"

That's the easy stuff.

How about freezing Brazilian assets in the U.S.
Cancel their foreign ownership rights and force them to sell their U.S. assets.


If they are unlikely to get jail time, as you say, why are they being held with bail? That is no excuse for Brazil holding them hostage. It's BS and you should know it.

What YOU need to understand is once in an international environment, governments are subject to all kinds of diplomatic, political, and economic pressure by other governments.

But you can keep on as another institutionalized tolerator (lover?) of Brazilian bureacracy and incarceration. Enjoy your comfy bed and uninterrupted life.

 

[cactusboy53]

There was the same appeal on our union web board. One pilot responded that these two pilots were now back in the USA. Any confirmation?? Thanks.

 

[ACWild]

Congratulations! Looks like they made it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061205/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_plane_crash

 

[Deerkiller]

that's awesome....welcome home guys

 

[ultrarunner]

I loved this part of the article....

They can pick up their passports in 72 hours and leave Brazil, but must agree to return to Brazil for further inquiry and judicial action, the court said on its Web site.


Get outta there and never go back!

 

[JediNein]

Get outta there and never go back!

I second that part. Hope their company gets the check from the insurance co and buys something else.

 

[southernpilot]

Brazil Court Orders Release of Passports to U.S. Pilots
A Federal Court in Brazil today ordered the release of the passports of the two U.S. pilots of the Embraer Legacy 600 involved in the September 29 collision with a Gol Airlines 737 over the Amazon. The Federal Regional Court of the First Region of Brazil said that it had unanimously agreed to return the passports of Joseph Lepore, 42, of Bay Shore, N.Y., and Jan Paladino, 34, of Westhampton Beach, N.Y. effective in 72 hours. All 154 people on board the Gol flight were killed, while none of the seven people on board the Legacy was injured. The new corporate jet was on a delivery flight to the headquarters of its buyer, charter operator ExcelAire of Ronkonkoma, N.Y., when the midair occurred. Investigators continue to study the accident to determine cause and assign blame. ExcelAire’s lawyers in Brazil said in a statement that the decision “corrects the discriminatory effect of the passport seizure and travel restrictions.” The lawyers also said that the pilots “will continue to cooperate with the investigation.” [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]

 

[CAL EWR B737]

While our fellow aviators aren't home yet this is very good news. Lets hope they are on a airplane to anywhere out of Brazil five minutes after they get their passports.

TO EVERYONE WHO TOOK THE TIME TO WRITE YOU ELECTED OFFICIALS THANK YOU!