Placing a lien for pilot services not paid

[jdubya]

I did some work for a corporate flight department in Arizona and have not been paid..it has been about 3 months...the guy will no longer respond to my calls/emails regarding payment. Is a lien against the aircraft the way to go ?( the company is in financial trouble at this time and aircraft are grounded)..if a lien is the way to attempt to get paid someday...how do I do it? Thanks

 

[Andy Neill]

[I'm not a lawyer]

I doubt you would have the necessary standing to place a lien on the aircraft whereas a mechanic might. I'm guessing your only recourse would be a suit in small claims court.

 

[H.Agenda]

i know of someone who's done it for pilot services. it was for over 4k though.

 

[LJ45]

go put a chain and lock around the gear with a big sign to call you!

LOL

 

[jdubya]

lien for pilot services

Do you know how they did it...through an attorney or can you obtain the paperwork yourself and file it?..This would also be for around $4,000 (unfortunately, it includes expenses that I incurred for him). Thanks for any information you can give...

i know of someone who's done it for pilot services. it was for over 4k though.

 

[LJ45]

couple of suggestions:

1. show up at the office a couple of time with bill in hand and just hang around.

2. send certified return receipt mail with letter for finally notice before the bill is turned over to legal and or collection agency. "demand letter"

 

[Dr Pokenhiemer]

I'd send them a certified letter along with another copy of the invoice adding a late fee to the original amount like any other company would do to you. Include in your letter your intent to pursue the matter through legal channels if payment is not received within 10 days. Inform them that they will be charged a collection fee for the attorney. After that, get an attorney to draft a letter on their letterhead and send another threat to so you are serious about it.

 

[getonit]

All of the attorneys in the world won't help you if they don't have any money which sounds like the case. If it is a corporation and they go under your claims will be added to all of the other claims. I hate to say it but you are probably up a certain creek w/o a paddle, maybe make an offer for less and consider it an expensive lesson.

 

[Galaxy]

Contact you state attny office

Q. Under what circumstances can I file a Lien against an Aircraft, Engine or Propeller?
A. This varies from State to State. There is no Federal form of lien against Aircraft, Engines or Propellers. In some instances, you have a right to keep possession of the Aircraft, at least for a period of time, if you have not been paid for your work on the aircraft. In some states, you do not have that right. In general, the only time you can file a lien (as opposed to a Security Agreement which is typically thought of as a 'mortgage"), is if you have performed labor or services on, or provided materials to, an aircraft. Some states also recognize a lien for storage or other services that are not incorporated directly into the aircraft itself. Recently, a procedure has become available for recording liens on the International Registry, which may have the effect of clouding the title of the Aircraft or Engine in many countries with one single filing. While it its not rocket science, claiming a lien against an aircraft or engine does require a great deal of care to do it right. Doing it the wrong way can not only cause you to lose your lien but could expose you to liability for slandering the title of the aircraft or engine.
Q. How much time do I have to try to resolve a dispute before I am required to file a lawsuit?
A. Statutes of Limitation, and Statutes of Repose vary significantly from state to state and country to country. In general, the first time you even have an inkling that something is not what it is supposed to be, and that it may be due to someone else's act or failure to act, you should consult an attorney. This does not mean that you have to sue. Simply find out how long you have to investigate matters before you are required to file suit, under pain of losing your right to sue if you don't do it in time. Also, find out if there are any prerequisites to filing a suit, such as giving a certain minimum notice to a potential defendant, which could further shorten your time. Find out whether settlement negotiations will work to extend the time you have to sue (usually NOT). In some cases, documents other than state laws will control the answer to this question. For instance, some contracts shorten the time you have to file suit. Insurance policies are famous for this. In addition, some contracts require that specific acts be done, or notices be sent, in order to preserve your right to sue. The moral of the story is: If you think that someone else might be responsible to pay you for damage or injury that you have sustained, you should check with a lawyer right away to make sure that you do not lose any valuable rights simply by the passage of time.
Q. Does my potential claim qualify to be handled on a contingency basis?
A. This is an extremely complex question, which has been made even more complicated by recent "tort reform" legislation around the country, which varies from state to state. The kinds of cases in which a contingent fee is normally applicable are cases of death or serious injury in which there are one or more potential defendants who have substantial assets or substantial insurance. Unless the facts are absolutely clear (and this happens rarely), matters with damages less than $100,000.00 USD are generally not good candidates for contingent fees. The amount of the award which the attorney may take as his or her fee is also limited by the Rules of Legal Ethics of most states, and by legislation or Constitutional Amendment in some states. You may be entitled to bring your claim in more than one state. If that is the case, you may have to decide which state has the best system of recovery for you, and the system of recovery that is most likely to allow you to get the best attorney in the field to agree to take your case.

Fact is somebody has equity in that aircraft. Contact an attny and get paperwork started right away. I am no big fan of lawyers but the guy you contracted for is betting on you laying down and taking it in the rear. He may not even own the aircraft you worked on but no to worry the aircraft owner will now have to pay you and let him sue the operator. You are entitled to the cost of services rendered, legal fees and in many cases the interest on the services.

 

[H.Agenda]

Do you know how they did it...through an attorney or can you obtain the paperwork yourself and file it?..This would also be for around $4,000 (unfortunately, it includes expenses that I incurred for him). Thanks for any information you can give...

There's some good advice on the board but some might be exessive in the way of overkill. Make a phone call to an attorney who deals in this sort of stuff, not a real estate attny or any kind but one who speacializes in this. I'm not sure what kind this would fall under, but chances are its alot easier and quicker to let a proffesional do this. let the sharks swim with the sharks.

 

[NW_Pilot]

If they are in financial trouble make sure they did not file for bankruptcy and list you as a creditor or someone that they owe a debt to because, if they did and you try to collect it is against the law and you must file an adversary? "check spelling" action with the bankrupts trustee which can and will most likely be costly I know from experience lost my ass few years ago because the company filed bank-o. They don't even have to notify you personally because as a private contractor they may not have your address and just list a public notice in a local news paper!:angryfire

 

[heywatchthis]

Record an aircraft Claim of Lien.

http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certifi...ation/aircraft_registry/record_aircraft_lien/

You must send the original claim of lien with $5 (U.S. funds) to the Aircraft Registration Branch.

The lien must comply with the form and the requirements for recording claims of lien in the State having jurisdiction over the claim. Not all States record claims of liens. FAA may only record liens if the applicable State law provides for recording claims of liens.

The claim of lien must include, at minimum, the following:

• the amount of the claim
• a description of the aircraft by N-Number, manufacturer name, model designation, and serial number
• dates on which labor, materials, or services were last furnished
• the ink signature of the claimant showing signer's title as appropriate
• a recording fee of $5 (U.S. funds) for each aircraft affected by the claim with a check or money order made payable to the Federal Aviation Administration

Mail Us Your Claim of Lien

What We Do
Once we record the lien, we will return to you AC Form 8050-41, Conveyance Recordation Notice. This notice describes the aircraft, lists the parties and the date of the claim document, and shows the FAA recording number and date of recordation. You may use this form as a release if the claimant signs it and returns it to the Aircraft Registration Branch.
Another acceptable release of lien is a letter executed by the claimant, containing the same information, and a statement releasing all the claimant's rights and interest in the aircraft.

For more information, contact the Aircraft Registration Branch.

 

[Andy Neill]

I don't agree with the idea of being able to file a lien on the aircraft. A mechanic who has provided parts and/or labor to improve/repair the aircraft has standing. The pilot who provides services in the operation of the aircraft (as I understand it) does not.

 

[heywatchthis]

The pilot who provides services in the operation of the aircraft (as I understand it) does not.

Services my AS!, it's called LABOR. Pilots don't work for free. But why is LABOR from a mechanic OK, but not labor from a PILOT? They both deserve to be paid.

This guy held up to his agreement and provided a service of his LABOR, and he should put a lien on the aircraft. Now when the aircraft is in pre-buy being sold, they will have to pay off his lien before the ownership can change hands, regardless if the corporation files bankruptcy or not.

 

[DieselDragRacer]

Another option if all other attempts to receive payment fail is to file a 1099 for bad debt on their arse.

Let's say someone owes you $25K that you will never get file a 1099 on them for $25K in bad debt and the good 'ole IRS tacks that $25K onto their income for the year plus penalties and interest. Then you at least get the personal satisfaction of knowing the IRS is going to make them miserable until they get their money.

 

[Galaxy]

Wake up and call a LAWYER

You wouldn't ask your mailman for medical advice would you?
You wouldn't ask your car mechanic for financial advice would you?
If you were a CP or DO you wouldn't hire a lawyer to fly your plane (even if they were qualified).
SO, you have heard it all before from the flight info porta-jon lawyers.
NOW-contact a professional LAWYER then get back to us on the results.

 

[ACT700]

Hate to say it, but to recover 4grand, I think it'll cost you more money, and time to get some half assed response from some lawyer.

The only thing you could do is try to make their lives miserable with some of the stuff suggested above.

One thing I would do, though, is file a claim with the department of labor. Depending of course, on your terms of employment. If you weren't a full timer, it will be all the harder.

Good luck.

 

[Headwind]

If it were me, I would call one of the ladies in Ok, City who do aircraft title service. If it can be done they can do it for you and they don't charge much.

HEADWIND

 

[LJ45]

Hate to say it, but to recover 4grand, I think it'll cost you more money, and time to get some half assed response from some lawyer.

.

Exactly ! why I was trying to give alternatives before contact a lawyer or collection agency as a last resort.

 

[lawfly]

There are different kinds of liens. One is a judgment lien. If you obtain, for example, a small claims judgment, you could seek potential enforcement through various means, including a judgment lien. Exact procedures vary. An order to appear is another post-judgment procedure, as is an attachment, a garnishment, a keeper, etc. The latter could be effective if the aircraft owner has a cash receipts business. So, the small claims avenue (assuming the amount is within your local small claims jurisdictional limits) could have some teeth, assuming formal, written demands are unavailing. I doubt that you will be able to recover legal fees, if you do incur any. Generally, contract cases require an explicit attorneys fees clause for the recovery of same. Consult counsel if appropriate and good luck.

 

[Publishers]

A "mechanic's lien" is a legimate lien but was not thought of in the aircraft context. You enhanced the value of the asset so a lien was allowed to encumber it.
In all cases, a good deal has to do with the written agreement that led to the parties contest. If you go get work done on your car or your house, usually someone will give you something to sign that will back them up if they go to lien the item. In effect, this is the Notice to Owner aspect of the case. In these cases, a lien is somewhat in effect from the time you sign until they are paid in full for the work and then you are required to give the person paying a full release of lien.
Judgements were talked about by someone else.
The problem is that in most cases, a pilot may not even have a written document that states the agreement and terms. He has no Notice to Owner and is merely providing a service which in many cases is not lienable.
Get an attorney if you want to pursue a case but understand that even if successful, there may not be a way to enforce even a judgement.

 

[n5374f]

Can you tell us who it is ?

Can you tell us who the company or owner is so we can stay away from them ?

 

[Otter]

Well legally I would imagine that there is no actual "agreement". Verbal agreements are very difficult to enforce in most states. I also think that the liens mentioned previously are refered to as "mechanics liens" and fuel, parts and maintenance are the only items that have standing. Of course, not an attorney, just an opinion.