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Pistol packin' pilots

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bobbysamd

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Nov 26, 2001
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I heard this on NPR this evening. Here's copy from AP :

Feb 19, 7:24 PM EST

Feds Announce Plan for Arming Pilots

By LESLIE MILLER
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Commercial pilots who want to carry guns in the cockpit would have to undergo psychological and background checks before being selected for a five-day training program under a plan announced Wednesday by the Transportation Security Administration.

The first group of 48 pilots could begin training in a month, the agency said.

It said the plan is preliminary and could change before Tuesday's deadline for the agency to issue rules for the program, which was approved by Congress last year.

The plan calls for the training to include marksmanship, lessons on legal policies and defensive tactics, agency spokesman Robert Johnson said.

"We're focusing on their ability to be a good federal law enforcement officer in a crisis situation at 48,000 feet," he said.

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After completing training, pilots would be issued a .40-caliber, semiautomatic pistol and given authority to have the weapon with them only when they're flying a commercial aircraft, Johnson said.

When going to and from the airport, they would be required to carry the holstered weapon inside a locked case inside a bag so no one could tell they had a gun, he said.

Though Congress didn't give the TSA any money to train pilots or pay for guns, the agency assembled $500,000 from various accounts for a test program. The agency has asked for $20 million to run a broader program.

"It's going to be limited and small-scale," said Capt. Fred Bates, an American Airlines pilot who heads a group of pilots working with the agency to put the program in place. "We have grave concerns" about the program's scope, he said.

Pilots also strongly objected to the restrictions on carrying weapons.

"Placing the weapon in and out of a container is probably not as safe as actually carrying it," said Capt. Steve Luckey, chairman of the Air Line Pilots Association's national security committee. "The more you handle the weapon, the more the opportunity arises for an accidental discharge."

The possibility of a gun going off by mistake is one reason airlines and airports have opposed arming pilots. Though a bullet that would do little harm if it pierced an aircraft's fuselage, it could cause a problem if it hit a fuel line or electrical cable.

Michael Wascom, spokesman for the airlines' Air Transport Association, said the group hasn't had a chance to review the proposal.

"However, it's fair to say, we've had well-known reservations about arming pilots with deadly weapons," Wascom said.

Pilots don't agree whether background checks are appropriate. Bates said pilots are already a select group. "Extensive psychological testing is a waste of taxpayers' money and is counterproductive," he said.

Luckey said his group supports the background checks because they would filter out anyone who was psychologically unable to kill someone - an attribute not needed to fly an airplane.

"Suitable to fly is not the same as suitable to shoot," Luckey said.

The TSA will select the first 48 pilots to be trained from nominees submitted by the pilots' groups. Luckey said hundreds of pilots from the Air Line Pilots Association are signing up every day.
 
"We're focusing on their ability to be a good federal law enforcement officer in a crisis situation at 48,000 feet," he said.

48,000 feet eh?:eek: Shows how familiar with aviation TSA is.
 
Though a bullet that would do little harm if it pierced an aircraft's fuselage, it could cause a problem if it hit a fuel line or electrical cable.
What about a fellow crew members head???
 
Packin' heat at FL370

This is a non-issue... as long as those in our inept government continue to ignore the real security threat (hiding behind the guise of the TSA and so called 'increased security measures') and disregard the professionalism and responsibility of the pilot community, we can expect to continue to see this type of response. Do I support pilot's packin' heat in the cockpit? Absolutely! As long as they have demonstrated a certain aptitude and ability to handle that weapon effectively. After all, WE ARE the LAST line of defense in the face of terrorism. Had my fathers friends, the crews of UAL93, UAL175, AA11 or AA77 had been armed with guns in the cockpit - would that have not given them a better chance to survive? When murderers break into the cockpit and attack you while you are straped to your seat climbing through FL240, you will wish you had a weapon. Because the unfortunate truth is, these people are out to murder us as we do our jobs at work. Let 9/11 be a lesson to you- and don't let out ALPA and AAPA brothers die in vain- volunteer to carry a weapon on the flight deck! I am not going to confirm or deny that we carry a weapon on the flight deck of our Citation II, but the truth be told, I can atest that we are ready to defend that cockpit TO THE DEATH in the face of anyone trying to take command of that airplane from us. I can tell you one thing, all the security screening in the world won't stop terrorism. And the 'fortress cockpit' theory has worked well so far. But TSA employees wave through police and law enforcement officers carrying lethal weapons without even checking their identification. In the words of one NWA F/O I met in PVD, "He's got a uniform that means something." And as long as that kind of stuff is going on at airports around the USA, I stand behind every effort to put lethal force behind that cockpit door. "Qualified to Fly - Qualified to Defend"

http://www.alpa.org/alpa/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentId=243
 
A DE at the Airport I instruct said they should hand out guns to every passenger getting on the flight. "Imagine how friendly everyone would be to each other then."
And a person trying to attempt a hostile takeover, fuggetaboutit.
 
the problem with that suggestion...

even though I wholeheartedly agree with it is that if you look at most of the reasons that planes have been diverted back or to other airports...it's been because of people that were mentally unstable.

go back and look at most of those air rage events. truely irrational behavior. I wouldn't want them to have a gun, but I agree with what your saying. No hijackings could occur if everbody was armed.
 
I guess I have two points to make:


"Placing the weapon in and out of a container is probably not as safe as actually carrying it," said Capt. Steve Luckey, chairman of the Air Line Pilots Association's national security committee. "The more you handle the weapon, the more the opportunity arises for an accidental discharge."

Right Church, wrong pew. A handgun is an extremely desirable item to certain individuals. Walking around with one in a box makes you a desirable target. The reason behind carrying a handgun to and from your place of work that requires it, is that you can use it to defend yourself from those who want to steal it. In NY (not in the 5 burroughs) even people who only have a target permit are allowed to carry concealed. An unloaded gun in a locked case, will do you more harm than good.

One other thing to remember is that actually carrying a gun around is a lot more responsibility than it seems. I worked at an FFL selling handguns and rifles, as soon as Igot my permit I got a gun and carried it. The novelty wore off pretty quick. You have to pay constnt attention to who's around, and whats going on around you. Do you really want to have the added responsibility distracting you while you are going to work and preping for a flight.

All that being said, and along with a god program for training pilos to handle the firearm, I completely support guns in the cockpit. Under a lot of circumstances, the most effective part of a firearm is its presence. Pax who know the pilots are armed will be a lot less likely to try and gain access to the cockpit.
 
"Psychological" testing...heh. Most law enforcement types I know have a plethora of psychological issues, most frequently antisocial personality disorder.
 
Hi Jack!

A DE at the Airport I instruct said they should hand out guns to every passenger getting on the flight.

I believe it was Mr. Archie Bunker that proposed that as a solution to hijackings in "All In The Family" back in the 70's. Rest in peace Mr. Bunker.
 

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