Piper Arrow II

[Mr Proach]

Hoping those of you that have flown this type can give me some tips and pointers?

Stuff outside the POH, etc. Gear probs? Starting issues?

Thanks - I'm off in one later this month for some XC and I only have a few hrs in this make and model. Want the low down on as much as possible.

Oh yeah, I'll remember to put the legs down, and someone mentioned a hyperjet button on another website, so now I know about that, which is nice

 

[Pilotadjuster]

Arrow II

Its a great aircraft. I understand it has a bit less takeoff performance than later models, because of the "hershey bar" wing (later models have the tapered wing).

The gear system takes a bit of getting used to; if your auto-extend has not been deactivated, you need to lock the system out for short field take-offs. Otherwise you won't be able to get the gear up much under 90 kts. Much better than the Arrow I however, which did not have a lock-out pin and required the pilot to have 3 arms...

Pretty easy aircraft to fly overall. Very similar to any other low-wing Piper, just a bit more power and speed.

Starting can be a problem--just don't flood the thing and you'll be fine Problem is worse when the engine is hot; if you do, procedure is to start cranking again with the mixture all the way out, then richen again as the engine catches. Only a little throttle is needed to put enough gas in to get it going - maybe 1/2 inch or so.

Have fun! My favorite aircraft to fly (so far it is an admittedly small list...).

 

[tarp]

Use "Search" on this board and type in "Piper Arrow" - you should get plenty of info!!!

 

[Mr Proach]

oops - should have thought of the search thingie here.


Thanks all.

 

[tarp]

Also, you stated:

"only have a few hrs in this make and model"

You don't have any info in your profile - if you are a Cessna driver converting to Piper for the first time (i.e first time really going to be on your own and acting real PIC), then you need to take the typical cautions.

#1 - Fuel Management - there is no "both" on Pipers. On X-C's you either think in terms of each hour/half-hour of flight and make mental notes to change tanks or you find out the hard way.

#2 - you have to do a lot of "s" turns to look down. Cessna drivers think that not having that wing above their head is quite liberating but they forget that you can't look down through all that sheet metal in the wings. Ya' gotta make s-turns to see what might cause problems below.

#3 - "flair" in a piper is how you act at the FBO. Putting huge elevator corrections for a flair a'la a Cessna-172 haul back on the yoke is just gonna cause quite a ballooning effect. Just lift the nose of the Piper so that the little hump for the prop just touches the end of the runway in your sight lines and it will "auto-land" every time.

#4 - carb heat - oh never mind you're in a Arrow. However, there is the great debate about its use in Piper carb equipped aircraft.

#5 - Performance tables and the use of magnifying glasses. Why Piper couldn't just make tables like Cessna, but anyway do some study and follow the magic dotted line in the sample.

#6 - Do not lock Piper cargo doors. In an emergency and turned the wrong way, you have only one escape door out of a Piper unless you leave the cargo door unlocked. If it is unlocked, you take your fuel sampler with the phillips head on the end and remove the two screws on the back of the door. Push the spring aside and the cargo door will pop open. If locked, you won't get it open until somebody puts the key in the outside. And to all those who want to kick out the plexiglass, if your plane has the .40 plexiglass instead of the .25 you can be kicking pretty hard trying to make a crack!

#7 - push the flaps down on a pre-flight, there's a spring in there so that you can look at the bolts holding the flap on. When pushing on the flaps or ailerons do so only at rivet lines - the plexiglas may be thick but the aluminum is pretty thin. Don't put greasy fingers on the wing-tip strobes (look but don't touch) the heat from the strobe boils the oil residue from your fingers and breaks the glass. The pitot tube has three holes, pitot, static and a drain - all need to be clear. Piper stall vanes are tested by lifting the vane slowly until the horn sounds - do not just pound the switch to the top and listen to the horn - the horn should sound before the vane hits the stop. Never squeeze or rub the "royalite"(plastic) wing tip and elevator fairings. That stuff is very brittle in the sun - I have all fiberglass and composite parts now on my Cherokee. When you are inspecting the horizontal stabilator, get on one end like the stabilator is a see-saw plank and lift gently and press gently - if there is a "click-click" noise, I suggest you get the bushings replaced pronto - there have been binding problems on all the PA28's. Last pre-flight item may actually be your first on the checklist, depending on the year, there are pitot-static drain buttons on the fuselage wall (inside) next to the pilot's seat - make sure you push these buttons in once a day (first flight) to get any water out of the lines.

The most dangerous items for you are fuel management and that Piper "lock-out" mechanism on the free-fall gear. As the previous post said, you use it on the short field takeoff and then forget about it on your next landing and well it could be a long time before you take off again. If the "lock-out" is not disabled on your airplane, make it part of your GUMPSS flow to check that lockout button. And I know you're thinking 3-green, gear warn horn, how the heck can I make a stupid mistake - yeah, ask that of the people who land at dusk (nav lights on) with a broken gear horn wire.

Did we mention the "nav light" wash out? - with nav lights on in anything other than real night time, the 3-green are almost invisible - favorite CFI trick is to turn the nav light switch on during the day and see if the student will land without seeing 3-green.

Finally as noted above, starting the fuel injected Arrow on a "hot" start can be exasperating. The vapor lock is tremendous. What I like to teach people is to think of a straw or better yet siphoning fuel out of a gas tank using a piece of hose. If you get a bubble of air in the straw or the siphon hose, you make a real mess out of your mouth and nostrils (Coca-cola or gasoline). You want a continuous flow of fuel to the injectors until the engine starts. With that - on a hot start - mixture lean, throttle open about a half inch, crank the engine, while you flip the fuel pump switch on, then while continuously cranking move the mixture forward - that should keep a steady flow of fuel without creating a vapor lock. (Note: the difference between this and the book is I am cranking the engine before the fuel pump goes on, this stops fuel being pumped to the spider before you are ready for it.) That works on 90% of the starts - if you flood it, reverse the throttle and mixture controls - open the throttle all the way and shut the mixture off until you get some kind of a cough of ignition. The arrow starts beautiful when cold but is a beast when hot.

 

[Pilotadjuster]

Arrow

Now you're giving away all the cfi "secrets"! I did a nice go around when my instructor turned down the panel light vernier and thus turned off my 3 greens as I was looking back to turn base. As I checked everything I could, he started laughing about mid-field downwind leg and turned the lights back up...

I hadn't thought about the Cessna to Piper transition stuff; went the opposite way myself and keep wanting to change tanks on the 172...

We actually lock out the auto-extend on every take off (Salt Lake--density altitude in summer can be fun) - otherwise you mush around at relatively low altitude trying to gain speed to make the wheels go up! This airplane does NOT fly like an Archer with the gear down. Anyone know if the effect is less pronounced at lower density altitude? I would suspect at sea level or at least lower than 5,000 feet, it would be a lot less of a problem.

 

[Dan CFI/CFII]

Pilot adjuster:

The Arrow is MUCH better at low altitudes. At high density altitudes, it is plain and simple a dog. Can't accelerate out of ground effect if you don't disable the auto-extender, and has a pretty hard time with more load than two people and fuel to the tabs.

For my money, I wouldn't own an Arrow up here (9,000 foot density altitude or so). And they can be tricky to instruct in at first, everybody messes up the rotation and that causes it to eat up more runway...

Dan

 

[Mr Proach]

Really appreciate the replies here - all good stuff.

I have around 100 hrs or so PIC Archer/Warrior and 25 hrs or so Seminole. I actually had the opposite problem of getting used to a C152 or a C182. Never been in a 172 (yet).

Haven't noticed poor acceleration with the gear down, but they were cool days, 500 MSL, and I don't weigh very much! This trip there will likely be two up, plus golf bags.

I'll certainly note the "hot start" procedure (thanks tarp). Auto extend, I believe, was disconnected (permanently) on this kite.

As an aside to the elevator check, I have in the past "wiggled" the wings (Warrior) to find a slight give. Turned out some bolts had slipped from the front spar connection (not the main spar at the centre of the wing). Decided to have a beer instead of fly that day.....

 

[midlifeflyer]

The Arrow is MUCH better at low altitudes. At high density altitudes, it is plain and simple a dog.

...unless, of course it's a Tubo Arrow, like the ones we tend to fly around Colorado.

 

[Pilotadjuster]

Arrow

I am certain it must be a fine a/c at low altitudes; I took my CFI Check Ride in an Arrow I (180 hp) in Grand Junction, CO! I have no idea how they fly that thing in the summer. Thank God it was March and in the 40s when I flew it...