Pinnacle's new fatigue policy

[Smarta$$]

Nobody decides you are fit to fly except you. The alternative? I crashed but I was tired, sorry? Safety is safety, and if you are tired and don't feel safe for WHATEVER reason, then DON'T fly. I would flood the POI with calls, emails, letters, everything. This has only intimidation value only. Kind of like writing up discrepencies....There's nothing they can do if the plane is broke. There's nothing they can do if you're tired and not safe. It's all hand in hand. Good luck to you Pinnacle Pilots. This is BS and I hope it's resolved sometime soon.

Trojan

I understand what you are saying. My question is the distinction between fatigue and sick. If you didn't get good rest the night before even if you went to bed at a responsible time, is that a legal fatigue call. Or would that fall under the sick call policy.

I think it is a fatigue call, but I just trying to get a reading from others. In other words, fatigue would not just be due to long duty days, wx, mx, extensions, 4 highspeeds in a row or 6 duty days in a row.

 

[USCtrojan]

I understand what you are saying. My question is the distinction between fatigue and sick. If you didn't get good rest the night before even if you went to bed at a responsible time, is that a legal fatigue call. Or would that fall under the sick call policy.

I think it is a fatigue call, but I just trying to get a reading from others. In other words, fatigue would not just be due to long duty days, wx, mx, extensions, 4 highspeeds in a row or 6 duty days in a row.

I didn't mean to come across as attacking you, if I did, then I apologize. All I was trying to say was that it doesn't matter what the reason is. If you don't feel safe because you broke up with your girlfriend, then DON'T fly. The point is you can't focus, and the lives of many people depend on your focus and attention, so DON'T fly. Call in sick, call in fatigued, call in stupid. If they ask you for a reason, you simply state, "I didn't feel safe to fly." Now, if you have a long history of doing this over and over, that will not bode well. However, they still can't determine whether YOU are safe or not. Only you can, it doesn't matter what the reason is. Like I said in the previous post, what is the alternative?

The rest is fear and intimidation. I know of a person at ASA who had over 50 sick calls in a year. This person never was fired. They threatened, forced to sign letters, etc, but was never fired.....Fear and intimidation. They can hem and haw all they want, but it comes down to pressuring you to fly when you don't feel safe.

Trojan

 

[Rook]

Yeah that sucks. I did 4 CDO's and after blocking in the morning after the 4th one, I got JM'd to do a 5th. But the catch was it would be legal by them delaying the flight in the morning even though back then DTW-SCE was always a CDO. Refused and when called in to the carpet the Base mgr just said "You were 'Fatigued' right?" Right. End of story.

Don't bend metal guys. Just do the right thing and be safe.

 

[Dubya]

Scaring people to fly fatigued...

In a nutshell...
If you call in fatigued you now have to fill out a flight safety report within 24 hours of the call and contact your base manager to schedule a meeting to discuss why/how you were fatigued (I think within 72 hours of the call). Your fatigue call will be "considered unjustified" if these things aren't accomplished. I assume that means you'll be mistripped. This probably isn't legal and if someone sues them they'll probably win; however, as always with the management tactics here, lawsuits are cheaper than higher wages and adequate staffing levels.

It seems like every 3 months we get a new "you better not miss any work or you'll be fired" memo. Makes for a good laugh and roll of the eyes. The problem is they're conditioning pilots (especially the new-hires that are on probation) to fly sick and fatigued. Nobody wants to deal with management here and they use that to their advantage.

You guys are ALPA, right?

 

[regionaltard]

If you have one, you should definitely ASAP your fatigue calls too.

 

[PCL_128]

If you have one, you should definitely ASAP your fatigue calls too.

Not at Pinnacle. The ERC has said that they won't accept ASAP reports for fatigue calls.

 

[PCL_128]

Bring the union rep, the POI and your own lawyer...they will cave at the meeting...it is really sweet.

You don't need all of this. Just bring a good union rep and it will be a non-event. Don't let them intimidate you.

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

Fatique

It's funny that not too long ago a mesa jet over flew there destination because the pilots fell asleep. It was really bad considering it being over the ocean.

Didn't Pinnacle have an incident like this a few years ago? I am not pointing fingers. I know that after 3 high speeds I am ready to die and am certainly not going to say that I have never nodded off.

Seems like management is pressuring you guys. XJ has a max of 4 high speeds in a row. The bs with getting junior manned into a 5th is really unacceptable.

Hopefully, this is one of the contract items you guys are fighting for. I suspect this is not so subtle retaliation for the arbitration ruling and you probably should expect more.

 

[XJohXJ]

XJ has a max of 4 high speeds in a row.

Unfortunately, for many pilots I know, including myself, 4 is already too many.

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

4 Highspeeds were way too any for me, especially in the SAAB. 2 Legs out / 2 back.

By the third one in a row, the blow up doll pilot in "Airplane" probably would do a better job than me.

 

[Grimper]

This is a preventive intimidation attempt. They screwed up the schedules so badly for April they know there are going to be problems. It holds no water but one of the MSP base managers will probably force us to prove that and while the grievance is going on the example pilot will get a paid vacation.

As for the POI you all must have different POI's than us. Ours would tell the pilots if they can't handle flying on one hours rest while fighting the flue then we should find a new job. We are not cut out for airline flying.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

4 highspeeds is the limit at pinnacle as well. They would delay the 4th one to get minimum legal rest (turning it into not a highspeed) so you could do a "5th."

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You don't need all of this. Just bring a good union rep and it will be a non-event. Don't let them intimidate you.

The question is.... are the union spots being filled as pilots move on to other carriers?

Who knows... if you volunteer at 9E the career you save might be your own!!

 

[DTWFO]

If you have one, you should definitely ASAP your fatigue calls too.

You don't want to file an ASAP for anything at Pinnacle, unless you KNOW you are going to get violated for SURE. ASAP here is just another way for management to fire you.

 

[regionaltard]

Not at Pinnacle. The ERC has said that they won't accept ASAP reports for fatigue calls.

To paraphrase Frank Zappa:

Is that a real ASAP, or a Sears ASAP? Was the pilots' union part of a consensus on that issue or are we talking about the classic "two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner" scenario?