Pinnacle's new fatigue policy

[Flyer1015]

Anyone else think this is just a bunch of BS?!

Nothing but [more] scare tactics from Noncare Blvd!

:angryfire

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Send it to the local news channel.

 

[silver02ex]

Funny how this comes out right before April where there's no 4 days trips so they can put two 3 day trips together.

 

[flyf15]

For those of us not in the know, what are they doing to you guys?

 

[silver02ex]

For those of us not in the know, what are they doing to you guys?

Basicly you have to file a flight safety report, call CS within 24 hrs. Meet with the base manager. Then they will determine if it was justify.

 

[Mike man]

Bring the union rep, the POI and your own lawyer...they will cave at the meeting...it is really sweet.

 

[Lazy8]

For those of us not in the know, what are they doing to you guys?

Scaring people to fly fatigued...

In a nutshell...
If you call in fatigued you now have to fill out a flight safety report within 24 hours of the call and contact your base manager to schedule a meeting to discuss why/how you were fatigued (I think within 72 hours of the call). Your fatigue call will be "considered unjustified" if these things aren't accomplished. I assume that means you'll be mistripped. This probably isn't legal and if someone sues them they'll probably win; however, as always with the management tactics here, lawsuits are cheaper than higher wages and adequate staffing levels.

It seems like every 3 months we get a new "you better not miss any work or you'll be fired" memo. Makes for a good laugh and roll of the eyes. The problem is they're conditioning pilots (especially the new-hires that are on probation) to fly sick and fatigued. Nobody wants to deal with management here and they use that to their advantage.

 

[Papps]

I filed those for fatigue calls anyway. It CYA's. Don't be a tough guy and live on no sleep just so Pinnacle can justify their terrible schedules.

 

[Jurassic Jet]

I would suggest also calling your FAA POI to be present in the meeting with your base manager.

They should be really interested (unless they're in the companys back pocket).

 

[Mike man]

At my former carrier we had tons of "get back at the company" fatigue calls...for example scheduling would add a round trip as you got to your overnight and folks would just say "oh, ok, I'm fatigued." This resulted in many a visit to the carpet on mahogany row.

 

[Smarta$$]

It would be against federal regulations to fly fatigued. No memo will change that.

My understanding of fatigue could even be caused by getting a poor nights sleep, even if you went to bed at an appropriate time. Would that be correct?

 

[redflyer65]

I'm a little confused.

The policy has always been to file a FSR after calling fatigued. That's part of the safety follow-up and tracking.

The meeting with the base manager has always been the same too. Non-discplinary.

Maybe the crew scheduling part was the new addition.

 

[Smarta$$]

I'm a little confused.

The policy has always been to file a FSR after calling fatigued. That's part of the safety follow-up and tracking.

The meeting with the base manager has always been the same too. Non-discplinary.

Maybe the crew scheduling part was the new addition.

And the fact that they are threatening to call it "unexcused". Or what ever term they used.

 

[redflyer65]

Roger. That part is different than before.

 

[USCtrojan]

It would be against federal regulations to fly fatigued. No memo will change that.

My understanding of fatigue could even be caused by getting a poor nights sleep, even if you went to bed at an appropriate time. Would that be correct?

Nobody decides you are fit to fly except you. The alternative? I crashed but I was tired, sorry? Safety is safety, and if you are tired and don't feel safe for WHATEVER reason, then DON'T fly. I would flood the POI with calls, emails, letters, everything. This has only intimidation value only. Kind of like writing up discrepencies....There's nothing they can do if the plane is broke. There's nothing they can do if you're tired and not safe. It's all hand in hand. Good luck to you Pinnacle Pilots. This is BS and I hope it's resolved sometime soon.

Trojan

 

[Smarta$$]

Nobody decides you are fit to fly except you. The alternative? I crashed but I was tired, sorry? Safety is safety, and if you are tired and don't feel safe for WHATEVER reason, then DON'T fly. I would flood the POI with calls, emails, letters, everything. This has only intimidation value only. Kind of like writing up discrepencies....There's nothing they can do if the plane is broke. There's nothing they can do if you're tired and not safe. It's all hand in hand. Good luck to you Pinnacle Pilots. This is BS and I hope it's resolved sometime soon.

Trojan

I understand what you are saying. My question is the distinction between fatigue and sick. If you didn't get good rest the night before even if you went to bed at a responsible time, is that a legal fatigue call. Or would that fall under the sick call policy.

I think it is a fatigue call, but I just trying to get a reading from others. In other words, fatigue would not just be due to long duty days, wx, mx, extensions, 4 highspeeds in a row or 6 duty days in a row.

 

[USCtrojan]

I understand what you are saying. My question is the distinction between fatigue and sick. If you didn't get good rest the night before even if you went to bed at a responsible time, is that a legal fatigue call. Or would that fall under the sick call policy.

I think it is a fatigue call, but I just trying to get a reading from others. In other words, fatigue would not just be due to long duty days, wx, mx, extensions, 4 highspeeds in a row or 6 duty days in a row.

I didn't mean to come across as attacking you, if I did, then I apologize. All I was trying to say was that it doesn't matter what the reason is. If you don't feel safe because you broke up with your girlfriend, then DON'T fly. The point is you can't focus, and the lives of many people depend on your focus and attention, so DON'T fly. Call in sick, call in fatigued, call in stupid. If they ask you for a reason, you simply state, "I didn't feel safe to fly." Now, if you have a long history of doing this over and over, that will not bode well. However, they still can't determine whether YOU are safe or not. Only you can, it doesn't matter what the reason is. Like I said in the previous post, what is the alternative?

The rest is fear and intimidation. I know of a person at ASA who had over 50 sick calls in a year. This person never was fired. They threatened, forced to sign letters, etc, but was never fired.....Fear and intimidation. They can hem and haw all they want, but it comes down to pressuring you to fly when you don't feel safe.

Trojan

 

[Rook]

Yeah that sucks. I did 4 CDO's and after blocking in the morning after the 4th one, I got JM'd to do a 5th. But the catch was it would be legal by them delaying the flight in the morning even though back then DTW-SCE was always a CDO. Refused and when called in to the carpet the Base mgr just said "You were 'Fatigued' right?" Right. End of story.

Don't bend metal guys. Just do the right thing and be safe.

 

[Dubya]

Scaring people to fly fatigued...

In a nutshell...
If you call in fatigued you now have to fill out a flight safety report within 24 hours of the call and contact your base manager to schedule a meeting to discuss why/how you were fatigued (I think within 72 hours of the call). Your fatigue call will be "considered unjustified" if these things aren't accomplished. I assume that means you'll be mistripped. This probably isn't legal and if someone sues them they'll probably win; however, as always with the management tactics here, lawsuits are cheaper than higher wages and adequate staffing levels.

It seems like every 3 months we get a new "you better not miss any work or you'll be fired" memo. Makes for a good laugh and roll of the eyes. The problem is they're conditioning pilots (especially the new-hires that are on probation) to fly sick and fatigued. Nobody wants to deal with management here and they use that to their advantage.

You guys are ALPA, right?

 

[regionaltard]

If you have one, you should definitely ASAP your fatigue calls too.