Pinnacle

[Napoleon TNT]

yeah....my edit finger is slow...

 

[Dumb Pilot]

They could have had an agreement yesterday if they wanted. The MEC submitted a very good proposal that would bring improvements in QOL issues and increase F/O pay and a modest raise for Capt. Pay. The proposal is fair and honorable taking into consideration the negotiating environment. We are NOT seeking to be the best paid at all, because your QOL is as important if not more than hourly rate.
But instead, they want to bully us into accepting a substandard contract that will put us even bellow MESA. With the threat of NWA taking all their flying away Yadda, Yadda.
If they want to impose MESA wages, they can actually have MESA.
Union Busting Central in Eagan, MN. Is holding the strings on this one. If you look at our management team at the right angle and on the right lite, you can actually see the strings.

The only little detail that Union Busting Central doesn't understand Is that the difference this time is that the majority of the pilot group is young enough to start again, the majority of the pilot group is not trying to protect retirement (There isn't any to protect), We don't have three books in this pilot group and we are something of an oddity in the Red Tail Family because the Airlinkers are actually behind their MEC's 1000% (I didn't misprint the additional zero)
Stop disrupting the life's of the MESABA workers and stop your whipsaw BS.

You need a contract in a hurry? GET REAL THEN.

 

[xjlifer]

They could have had an agreement yesterday if they wanted. The MEC submitted a very good proposal that would bring improvements in QOL issues and increase F/O pay and a modest raise for Capt. Pay. The proposal is fair and honorable taking into consideration the negotiating environment. We are NOT seeking to be the best paid at all, because your QOL is as important if not more than hourly rate.
But instead, they want to bully us into accepting a substandard contract that will put us even bellow MESA. With the threat of NWA taking all their flying away Yadda, Yadda.
If they want to impose MESA wages, they can actually have MESA.
Union Busting Central in Eagan, MN. Is holding the strings on this one. If you look at our management team at the right angle and on the right lite, you can actually see the strings.

The only little detail that Union Busting Central doesn't understand Is that the difference this time is that the majority of the pilot group is young enough to start again, the majority of the pilot group is not trying to protect retirement (There isn't any to protect), We don't have three books in this pilot group and we are something of an oddity in the Red Tail Family because the Airlinkers are actually behind their MEC's 1000% (I didn't misprint the additional zero)
Stop disrupting the life's of the MESABA workers and stop your whipsaw BS.

You need a contract in a hurry? GET REAL THEN.

Amen...well said. Your XJ brothers stand with you 1000% ( that was not a misprint either)

 

[another cfii]

I think all the Sat. Fedex letters just show how desperate mgmt are to get us to sign on the dotted line. But ironically, it's them who don't "get it"...

They don't really understand we don't give a darn if they paint us as the "bad guy", and the guys sitting in the ac conditioned room in MEM are the almighty labor savior.

There's a point where they stir the hornet's nest, and i believe they did just that.

When we step into NMB, which is gonna take forever, they'll know they mess with the wrong group of pilots. A lot of us here is a lot more militant than mgmt think we are, even the newbies...

 

[OMG7778]

Agreed, the scorched earth theory applies here. Burn them to the ground if they thing about concessions, they have not even started to see bitter yet.

 

[BOHICAgain]

the "BEST OFFER" was a joke... it seemed worse than the one we currently have... If this "BEST OFFER" somehow comes down for a vote the results better be 99.5% NO.... (someone will vote yes by mistake)... NOT 63 to 37 like big red tail pilots... STFDN

 

[MACH-TUCK]

the "BEST OFFER" was a joke... it seemed worse than the one we currently have... If this "BEST OFFER" somehow comes down for a vote the results better be 99.5% NO.... (someone will vote yes by mistake)... NOT 63 to 37 like big red tail pilots... STFDN

Its not the loud "NO" vote that im worried about, its the silent "YES" vote thats a killer.......

 

[blackbox]

i would like to think there isnt a "silent yes" among us because the contract they offered is so crappy. I cant imagine anyone voting yes....i hope i am right.

 

[dondk]

there is a silent "yes" vote, there always will be.

a "few" notes to remember, some of the senior guys cannot afford or are willing to go out on a long strike and the contract does not impact them as much as the junior group. Guys who are short timers (have other career options) have no vested interest either. Finally as the MEC letter states, the promise/threat of job security to the really junior pilots can be a silent yes.

the silent yes may not be by choice, but by survival.

the question is how many silent yes votes.

 

[n32jk]

I think it is fair game that these letters are posted publicly. Other pilots can see what to expect when these letters start flying at their properties.

I have been seeing these EXACT letters (oh the trivial issues and names change but they are essentially the same) every contract time for DECADES......

If anyone should be unhappy it should be Mike Campbell..... he wrote most of this crap for Ford and Harrison...

Oh wait doesn't he work for delta now???? just gonna help the boys in ATL see things the corporate way!!!

It ain't new,,,it ain't special,,, it sure ain't gonna stop in my lifetime......

But it sure does still p%^& me off that I get this junk mail along with all the overdue bills...(cause I'm paid so much I guess)..........

 

[learjet99_2001]

Got an interview with Pinnicale sept. 20 any info on if DTW is the Jr. base right now, and what type of scheulde could I except as a new hire. Also is it worth going there with all that is going on with NWA, just looking to upgrade fairly quick and move on. Thanks

 

[Lear70]

the question is how many silent yes votes.

I know you weren't really looking for an answer, but my bet would be solidly in the 10% category.

A small percentage of EXTREMELY senior DTW and MSP pilots who have been there forever (the top 3-5 guys), added to the top 10% of the MEM CA list that built the airline from the ground up and will never leave, plus the few disillusioned low-hour F/O's that still, despite ALL the MEC's education, will still choose to chase the company carrot of quick upgrade with a substandard contract.

I would be VERY surprised if, put to a vote, the crap they threw at you recently died with less than an 80-90% NO vote. The pilots there, from what I hear, are still just as pissed off as when I left.

 

[Fly4PayNoMore]

On Monday (8/28), I received a letter from 9E...specifically from the CFO. I've temporarily misplaced the letter, but the jist of the whole thing was the usual stuff that Trenary has been sending all of the pilots. It mentioned that the company's offer was a fair one, and that the pilots were sending 9E down the road of ruin.

The interesting part is that I haven't been a pilot at 9E for quite some time now. Just wondering if any other pilots, current or former, received the same letter? Good luck guys and gals!

F4PNM

 

[Longhorn]

Nope, not here...but a buddy of mine from pinnacle now at continental got one a few days ago. I am still waiting for Holl_ to call me and try to junior man me. That would be fabulous

 

[Lear70]

Jack slap that little b*tch... And take video footage.

Actually, Holly and I got along because I knew a few things about her, plus I made friends with some of the other supervisors.

Now there ARE two female schedulers who are now pilots that I wouldn't mind running into again in a few years.

Payback's a b*tch. >

 

[405]

You two be nice.

 

[Lear70]

You two be nice.

Why? They weren't. Especially the taller brunette who got married last year

You forget, I sat reserve for 3 years of mostly ready reserve 9 hours at the airport EVERY DAY. Hearing their voice at the end of the phone was basically like giving up on life for the rest of that day.

That's why I got into the habit of getting out of bed, calling to make sure everything was covered so far, throwing on my sweats, checking in for Ready Reserve, then going back to the crashpad and going to bed.

Contract doesn't say sh*t about a shorter callup period for ready reserves. As JH says: KMDA!

As far as payback? who am I kidding, they'll probably be over at FDX next week and I'll run into 'em on a jumpseat or something.

Must be nice to be hot, young, females in aviation - the wheels of progress seem to grease themselves.

Yeah, I'm jealous... just not enough to consider plastic surgery.

 

[405]

Why? They weren't. Especially the taller brunette who got married last year

You forget, I sat reserve for 3 years of mostly ready reserve 9 hours at the airport EVERY DAY. Hearing their voice at the end of the phone was basically like giving up on life for the rest of that day.

That's why I got into the habit of getting out of bed, calling to make sure everything was covered so far, throwing on my sweats, checking in for Ready Reserve, then going back to the crashpad and going to bed.

Contract doesn't say sh*t about a shorter callup period for ready reserves. As JH says: KMDA!

As far as payback? who am I kidding, they'll probably be over at FDX next week and I'll run into 'em on a jumpseat or something.

Must be nice to be hot, young, females in aviation - the wheels of progress seem to grease themselves.

Yeah, I'm jealous... just not enough to consider plastic surgery.

I was kidding, man. I guess I should've used the little "I'm being sarcastic" face.

 

[Lear70]

Oh, I gotcha... Yeah, I missed it. Lack of sleep catching up with me...

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Must be nice to be hot, young, females in aviation - the wheels of progress seem to grease themselves.

First. I've flown with both of them and in top of the attributes that you mentioned they happen to be good pilots as well. I seems that you implied that the only reason they would progress is because of their looks

Yeah, I'm jealous... just not enough to consider plastic surgery.

You would become one ugly bitch!
The only thing that would safe you is that you actually can fly

 

[Lear70]

LOL - one ugly bitch, huh? Probably.

I did NOT mean to imply that they can't fly, don't take it to mean that AT ALL. I've only flown with one of them, decent stick, no problems noted other than she was low-time and her situational awareness was better than most 400 hour pilots but still not where I'd *prefer* my F/O to be, I'm sure she's done nothing but improved. I didn't fly with the other at all.

I was speaking more of getting a job as a 121 Jet F/O with 300 to 500 hours total time. Either you fork out some major bucks at GIA or you have "something else" going for you and, given how many 300-1000 hour schedulers, dispatchers, and even F/A's at PCL who haven't gotten on as a pilot, and my brain instinctively makes an intuitive leap.

Historically speaking, EEOC guidelines have made sure minorities have better access to better jobs earlier in their career than the rest of us. Just a fact of aviation life, nothing new and not a slam on them professionally.

I just remember what life was like on reserve when they were working scheduling. My therapist says there's still hope for me... (jk *snicker*)

PEACE!

 

[FlyBunny]

You do have a chance...as per your own beliefs.

Must be nice to be hot, young, females in aviation - the wheels of progress seem to grease themselves.

HHhmmmm….I know couple of male pilots at Delta and NWA who got on without any experience with the regionals. One came from training, other from scheduling. So, I guess there’s a guy (or few) in Delta and NWA Pilot Recruitment who like the ‘strong’ young males. Try finding those guys and you might just luck out.

Bunny

 

[Rook]

Historically speaking, EEOC guidelines have made sure minorities have better access to better jobs earlier in their career than the rest of us. Just a fact of aviation life, nothing new and not a slam on them professionally.

Guess I need to go buy a pair of TiGGol's and I'd be set. :laugh:

 

[Lear70]

HHhmmmm….I know couple of male pilots at Delta and NWA who got on without any experience with the regionals. One came from training, other from scheduling. So, I guess there’s a guy (or few) in Delta and NWA Pilot Recruitment who like the ‘strong’ young males. Try finding those guys and you might just luck out.

Bunny

Bunny... Who said anything about prior experience at a regional? I was talking about them getting INTO a regional with lower hours than what's required for everyone else.

Incidentally, no one believes ANYTHING you write anymore.

You claim one week to be a genius aerodynamics expert teaching class part time (yet don't know the difference between "emeritus and Emirates"?), then claim a different week to be an Airbus pilot in Europe, then claim THIS week to somehow personally know a couple of DAL and NWA pilots who came from training and scheduling? Even though the European carriers don't hire U.S. pilots, yet you somehow were here long enough to make friends with schedulers and trainers who made it all the way to NWA and DAL?

Unless those were guys hired back in the 60's, I call *cough* Bullsh*t! Tell you what... PM me their contact info so I can go to the MEC at both companies and privately verify it and I'll come back here and publicly apologize to you.

Didn't think so... MYOFB which, unless you work(ed) at PCL, means it's NOT yfb.

Rook... ummmm, yeah. :0 But then you'd never want to leave the house.... I know I wouldn't.

 

[air cowboy]

Why? They weren't. Especially the taller brunette who got married last year

You forget, I sat reserve for 3 years of mostly ready reserve 9 hours at the airport EVERY DAY. Hearing their voice at the end of the phone was basically like giving up on life for the rest of that day.

.

Holy nuts, would a new hire nowadays sit reserve for 3 years?

 

[dondk]

First. I've flown with both of them and in top of the attributes that you mentioned they happen to be good pilots as well. I seems that you implied that the only reason they would progress is because of their looks

Whoa... every reccurent they were paraded out and about for our viewing pleasure. They also were the "lowest" time pilots that came to the line during that period. Also add the only "low time" pilots who came through internship program and while I am at it... the internship program was suspended shortly after they completed training. There has not been a successful intern in almost a year and the last intern had double the time they had.

I am not questioning their airmanship at all, I have not heard one bad thing. I do agree with Lear though... they got the fast track above many other qualified pilots.

 

[Lear70]

Holy nuts, would a new hire nowadays sit reserve for 3 years?

I guess I should clarify:

I was hired as a direct-entry street captain on the CRJ. They were having a bit of training trouble and the failure rate was extremely high and a lot of their pilots were short the upgrade flight time.

Right after I finished OE 9/11 happened and hiring was suspended for about 3 months - gave enough time for the senior guys in the right seat to get the flight time for upgrade and we were stupid enough to explain to the company why the training program wasn't working.

People started passing training in the 90% again and the street Captains got stuck at the bottom of the list - the risks you take if you take a street CA position anywhere.

Incidentally, before someone goes off on a rant about PCL training, the problem was that the sim course was designed BY FLIGHT SAFETY. This means that highly-experienced jet captains were teaching the jet for OTHER highly-experienced jet captains in a very automation-focused simulator environment, thinking everyone who was upgrading had been flying jets for a while. Unfortunately, most of those guys were turboprop drivers and had never seen a jet. So since you got VERY few chances to hand-fly the aircraft during training, about HALF the turboprop transition guys would roll the airplane over on a V1 cut or start porpoising on a steep turn out of PTS limits, etc.

We basically refused to fly their "200 feet speed mode, 400 feet heading mode, 600 feet autopilot on" in the simulator, and elected to hand-fly the airplane most of the first 4 or 5 sim periods until we got a feel for it. Almost got us fired until we explained why, then they saw the street CA pass rate was almost 100% and they backed off.

Once they got back to the basics of teaching swept-wing jet stick and rudder skills (note, I didn't say ANYTHING about teaching aerodynamics or theory, just how to fly the d*mn plane), the pass-rate went way back up.

So, long story short, no way you'd sit reserve 3 years in the CURRENT hiring environment at PCL. When the attrition levels drop... different story, but that's a while to come yet.

 

[lancair360]

Jack slap that little b*tch... And take video footage.

Now there ARE two female schedulers who are now pilots that I wouldn't mind running into again in a few years.

Payback's a b*tch. >

I don't know about 3 years ago when she was a scheduler, but I just flew with the blonde one and she is an excellent pilot. Very pleasant radio voice also, she sounds just like the actress Melanie Griffith.

 

[Lear70]

Yeah, she used to date Tareq M. Seemed nice enough, she was actually a better scheduler than the brunette.

I plotted revenge for when I flew with the brunette for MONTHS after she got online... then when I was her CA, I didn't have the heart to do it. What can I say, I'm an a*shole, just not THAT big of an a*shole...

 

[Rook]

I'm an a*shole, just not THAT big of an a*shole...

But we all knew that already:laugh: