Pinnacle upgrade time?

[jacko123]

What is the current upgade time for pilots that get hired with high time?

 

[Enterprise]

Immediately!

5 DTW captain awards went to people in Initial Training on the last bid. This will probably stay true for a few more months until things slow down. Unfortunately these guys will be a reserve for a very long time.

 

[Lear70]

Yup. Vacancy 05-01 is out, and like I said before, there's over 30 CA slots:

Effective date June 01 (they skipped May, I don't know why - more on that later).

11 MEM Captains
3 DTW Captains
19 MSP Captains (I kinda figured this - we only have 7 reserve Captains this month - the coverage up there is awful).

Total Captains needed: 33

Total F/O's that hold the time and have the bid in: around 10-15

Proposed class dates:
Feb 28, Mar 14, Mar 28, and Apr 11 (note, these are the speed course classes for current F/O's - reduced ground and sims. New hires would have three additional weeks of class before that so add 3 weeks prior to figure out your start date if thinking about street captain possibilities).

 

[jacko123]

Thanks for the responses. Is there a high failure rate for street captains? How is the training over there?

 

[da90drivr]

Lear 70

When you say street Captains, is the initial job offer after the interview for a Captain slot or are you hired as an FO and you are bidding for Captain while in class.

Thanks

 

[Lear70]

HR is "technically" claiming that they are only hiring F/O's, but they're interviewing / hiring a LOT of higher time people so they can "upgrade in class", usually in your first week of indoc the last two or three classes.

Do a search on here for Pinnacle Street Captain, you'll get a lot of the info you're looking for on washout rate (not bad if you have a good attitude and learn what the tell you), working conditions, etc.

I take it you drive the Falcon 90? And you want to come to a regional? A lot of us are looking at trying to get into what YOU are flying - I'd kill for a Falcon 50 / 900 CA seat at a stable corporate gig, but I'm not looking for flight time, I'm looking for money and nights at home.

Good luck,

 

[da90drivr]

Lear 70
Thanks for the reply.
The money is there on the corporate side but they are not paying you for your flying skills, you are being paid for your time. Think of it as 24/7 ready reserve.
I have been on both sides of the fence and I would jump over for a captain slot but I know the system does not usualy work that way.
Thanks for the info.

 

[Lear70]

Trade?

Getting a CA slot here would be relatively easy with your time (assuming you have the PIC time). Downside - permanent reserve, 10 days off, scheduling's biatch.

For the corporate 24/7 thing, I did a lot of charter and fractional work, I'm familiar with that one. Still beats being on reserve here, trust me... I did it for 3 freakin' years!

Thank God THAT'S over...

 

[av8tor4239]

What are the minimums for upgrade at Pinnicle? I know ASA requires 3000 TT 2000 Multi 5oo with the company, ATP written and class 1.

 

[Mtnjam]

Upgrades

Street captains are not being hired at Pinnacle. They are hiring F.O's but if you have enough flight time, then you can bid for Captain "upon initial hire" and have a good shot at getting it at this point and time, but tomorrow that could end?? Upgrade times are 3,000 total if you have 500 in type with the company, or Joe Schmoe can walk in off the street and bid for the left seat right away with 3500tt. I have heard they are cutting back the upgrade classes?? Who knows??? F.O. training is stressful enough, I couldn't imagine getting Captain right out of class, unless you're already a CRJ driver and have previous 121 experience. Good luck to those brave souls!

 

[Lear70]

Street captains are not being hired at Pinnacle. They are hiring F.O's but if you have enough flight time, then you can bid for Captain "upon initial hire"...

What a crock... no offense, but if you never sit a day in the right seat on the line, you're a street captain. So was I. Just call it what it is ('cause that's what everyone else in the company is calling it).

I have heard they are cutting back the upgrade classes?? Who knows???

Not yet. Vacancy 05-01 is out with 34 more CA upgrades. I imagine they'll have another vacancy out late Feb or early Mar for another 20 - 25 and that'll be it for a while. So far the "numbers game" I've been playing has been working right along with what they put out.

F.O. training is stressful enough, I couldn't imagine getting Captain right out of class, unless you're already a CRJ driver and have previous 121 experience. Good luck to those brave souls!

It's not that hard, jeeezzz. It's just an airplane. If your have been flying an EFIS and FMS-equipped jet aircraft in EITHER seat and have a decent head on your shoulders, you'll get through as a street captain just fine.

Incidentally, CA minimums are 3,500 total time, 1,500 multi, 1,000 turbine, 1,000 PIC. The 3,500 is reduceable to 3,000 with 500 time in type (allows F/O's to upgrade with 3,000 hours).

 

[psysicx]

Why are you on reserve,is there no chance to bid a line?

 

[Lear70]

In the last round of Street Captains (Winter through Summer 2001) we were promised additional Captain hirings which would get us off reserve quickly, then 9/11 happened and we were furloughed (for up to 90 days), then recalled but no hiring happened for half a year; that allowed many senior F/O's to finish getting their time and they fixed a lot of the training department problems so the pass rate went back up.

As a result, about 30 Street Captains hired sat reserve for 3 years. I did it just for the Part 121 PIC Jet time (hadn't done that with passengers before here, just freight and Lear pax Part 135), trying to round out my resume, plus it was a flying job during a very crappy time to be on the street so I can't complain (too much).

We're no longer on reserve, but won't hold more than 11 or 12 days off by the time we take our last delivery because of the way Crew Planning builds lines and pairings... such is life.

 

[resetjetfo]

New Street CA Will Sit Reserve LONGER

Worth mentioning for everybody looking to jump to a 9E left seat: RESERVE FOR NEW STREET CAPTAINS WILL PROBABLY BE LONGER THAN 3 YEARS.

Let that sink in for a while, fellas (and ladies).

Any 9E pilot can tell horror stories of reserve. When Lear 70 andthe first group of street captains came on line, the seniority list wasvastly shorter in comparison. New hires can look to have as manyas 500+/- to keep moving ahead as they upgrade. That meansINDEFINITE reserve, not just 3 years. Is the PIC time worth it,when moving up is not a short term goal in the profession, anymore?

Anyone who comes here better be comfortable with the company first, notjust after a quick left seat. Each month 10 or so guys get thetime to upgrade, and a few of us are playing poker with the vacancies,waiting for upgrade on our timeline (like summer thunderstorms insteadof blizzards--ahhhhh, nice). Street captains here are beyond the"red-headed stepchild" treatment, from some crewmembers, and especiallymanagement and scheduling.

Just think it all the way through, good and bad.

 

[T-handle]

How is the attrition at Pinnacle? Where are most peeps going?

 

[V2plus25]

I thought you guys were taking more aircraft deliveries? And someone mentioned that hiring would probably continue into the fall. If that were to happen, don't you think reserve would be more like a year or so?

More importantly, what's gonna go on with the contract up in April? Rumors of a strike? Might management start another airline with your new a/c deliveries instead of give in?

Whatever happens, don't sign a 16 year no-strike deal like we had at Eagle. BAD NEWS!

 

[Enterprise]

We recently got 10 more aircraft converted from options. Northwest still has a ton more and we might get some more piecemeal. Lots of variables with NW 70 seaters still up the air, Possible USAir (chp. 7) opportunities, and our contract which becomes ammendable May 1.

Any street captain would only have other street captain below him/her. We have 500 FOs who either do not have the time yet or are holding out for certain class dates. If and when the music stops the street CAs will not move up for many years. Every upgrade will go senior. Reserve here is more how many below you than anything else. We tend to adjust how much the line guys fly to get a certain reserve coverage when we are at staffing level (if ever).

 

[Mtnjam]

right or left

I can say in response to the earlier post that the new hire street captains will be completing the 121 PIC type ride in the CL-65, but as far as the line goes,rumor is that they will be sitting right seat for a bit, but nobody knows how that will work. Captain pay, or FO pay?? I would assume Captain pay since they completed the PIC checkride. They currently have captain upgrade classes going and don't want to let the new hires cut the current pilots off. All is hearsay. So my point is that the new hire street captains are supposed to sit right seat. I think it's only for a couple weeks?? Don't ask me, just rumors I hear floating around

 

[dondk]

A bunch of interesting comments.. Lear70's are as usual on the money. Some of the others...
We have about 1100 pilot's.. 460 or so are Captains. 100 or sobusted upgrade and are in the right seat for another year.150-200 or so FO's have either the time but not 23, shy a 100hours for the time, too lazy to get the ATP written done, notcomfortable moving to the left seat or are enjoying the 16+ daysoff.

The only benefit for NH CA's to sit right seat is for right seat qualifiactions. Just about every CA now are no longer right seat qualified. Personally, we don't need any more CA's right seatqualified as we have plently of FO's.

The company's position for upgrades are based on seniority.. if a senior FO wants to give he upgrade seat to the new hire,the company does not care, it is actually cheaper forthe company if a senior FO's bypasses.New hires have to pay theirown way, a senior FO rides the company meal ticket for 6 weekswith hotel.

I have heard that 3-4 more upgrade classes at a minimum, going into late summer, hiring until the fall. We have attrition, it isabout3-5%with Air Tran, JB, Fedex, America West, FAA jobs (I don't getthatone),and others are in the works. I have seen an average of 3-5guys per month leave. When NWA completes the recall we will loseanother 39 this year.

Contract... who knows.. but it will not be a very longcontract,I'dguess the negioations will be longer than the term forthe NEXT contract. The possibility if a new certificate isgood, but heck they can't even run this certificate correctly.

More Aircraft.. another who knows.. we were suppose to be gettinga lions share of the remaining 65 or so options. I would not besurprised to see a few more above the 139 hull's. Not many more,but a few...

 

[Lear70]

I can say in response to the earlier post that the new hire street captains will be completing the 121 PIC type ride in the CL-65, but as far as the line goes,rumor is that they will be sitting right seat for a bit, but nobody knows how that will work.

Unlikely.

Policy change as of August, 2004. CAPTAINS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SIT RIGHT SEAT. PERIOD. Something happened, can't get clarification on exactly what (I'm guessing a CA sitting right seat dinged an airplane), but there was an alert bulletin circulated stating that Captains were no longer allowed to pick up F/O trips nor were they allowed to be assigned an f/o trip in any way, shape, or form. Additionally, right seat qualification on recurrent checkrides was to stop immediately (as DONDK mentioned).

Additionally FAR's require that a pilot be trained in a specific position, and all your training records will reflect that (take a look at your training folder, every sim session, checkride, etc says either CAPT or F/O).

Either the individual is assigned as a Captain, or assigned as an F/O. There's no in between any longer. If they are assigned an F/O position, they must bid for a Captain slot like anyone else. The company has had problems with following the bid process before and it bit them... HARD. I highly doubt they'd try an end-run around someone again.