Pinnacle question

[mhermann596]

How many aircraft do you have, how many on order? Thanks in advance.

 

[redflyer65]

We have around 118 or 119, not sure exactly. The numbers change pretty quickly. 139 coming our way, nothing solid after that. Maybe a few more, maybe not. Hope that helps.

 

[mhermann596]

Thanks, I interview on Feb 2nd for a Feb 7th class date. Whats the base has the easier commuter schedule MEM MSP or DTW? What is training like?

 

[Lear70]

Assuming you're coming in as an F/O (we all know about assumptions), MEM and DTW have the best commuter schedules, MSP commuting is near-nonexistent until you get about 1/3 the way up the seniority list.

Training is a firehose... be prepared to become a parrot. Do exactly what they tell you to do, say exactly what they tell you to say, memorize exactly what they tell you to memorize, and you will be just fine. Training here is a game of memorization and playing well with others (not to mention towing the company line).

Have a good time on your interview, smile, relax, and don't be a shmuck and you'll do just fine on both interview and in training. They really DO hire who they like, not just who looks good on paper.

 

[PCL_128]

I would highly suggest you look at other opportunities with your flight time. You would be coming in at the very bottom of the hiring cycle at PCL. Reserve is hell here, and being a junior line holder is almost as bad. You would be looking at 10 and 11 day off lines for years. There is almost no attrition right now, and the growth will be coming to a screaching halt in just a few months.

If you insist on coming here to work, the best base for commuting would be DTW. However, commuting is very difficult on the junior lines. Expect 10 day off lines that aren't commuter friendly. That means you could end up with only 6-8 actual days at home. Commuting is not fun at this airline.

As for training, the story isn't much better. No pay in training and you have to pay for your own lodging for the 2 months you are in MEM for training. The training itself is very sub-standard for such a large regional. Expect to teach yourself the systems and SOPs. The ground instructors are just AGIs that have zero flight time. They basically just click through the slides and read them to you. The sim instructors are much better though. It's mostly furloughed Delta guys and they really know their $hit. Only complaint is that they don't know how the line ops really work at PCL, so you'll have a lot more to learn on OE than usual.

Again, if you have any other options I would recommend you give them a try before coming to PCL. Although there's lots of great crews to work with, the management is terrible and the airline is still run like a tiny Jetstream operator. I'm not happy here at all, and I'm one of the most senior FOs in the company. Just imagine how miserable it must be for a reserve FO with little chance of upgrade for years to come.

 

[mhermann596]

Can't be any worse than Trans States J-Ball ground school

 

[mhermann596]

Just imagine how miserable it must be for a reserve FO with little chance of upgrade for years to come.

What about all those Captain Vacancies? Are you not short 33 Captains? So I am curious about your last statement.

 

[PCL_128]

What about all those Captain Vacancies? Are you not short 33 Captains? So I am curious about your last statement.

My guess is that we will have one, maybe two, more vacancies to fill the remaining captain slots for the 139 airplanes. The last airplane is slated to arrive late summer, so the next couple of vacancies should be it for captain upgrades.

If you are lucky enough to be offered a street captain position, then that is something to consider. Remember though, you will NEVER get off reserve if you are hired as a street captain. There are 1100 of us in front of you on the seniority list that will get lines before you do. Lear70 just got off reserve last year and he is in the top third of the seniority list. You just have to ask yourself if you want to be on reserve pretty much forever. Just ask Lear70 how bad reserve is at this company. He had enough of it to give you plenty of stories.

 

[mhermann596]

Just so you know I am not trying to step on your toes, but I understand the reserve thing. I spent a year and a half on reserve at Trans States, and I was black and blue after coming out of that ringer. I just got furloughed from ATA, and my phone isn't ringging off the hook, and I want to stay in the midwest (family.)

 

[PCL_128]

I'm sorry to hear about your furlough. I keep hoping that things will get better in this industry, but the furloughs seem to never stop. Good luck on your interview, and if you have any questions when you start class or anything, just send me a PM. Most of us PCL pilots here on Flightinfo are happy to help out.

 

[propjob27]

Pinnacle IS offering street captain postions. Just to clairify that.

How bad is the reserve system there, assuming you live in base. Reserve sucks at ANY commuter airline. I've flown for 3 part 121 airlines, two regionals and one major. Reserve at BOTH regionals was terrible. What's different about Pinnacle? Again, please assume you live within an hour drive of your base airport.

Thanks for any info.

 

[PCL_128]

Pinnacle IS offering street captain postions. Just to clairify that.

That's news to me. We've all heard that the company won't actually use the words street captain. They say they are hiring "captain qualified FOs" and then deciding whether to offer them a captain bid while in class. If you're right, at least they are finally being honest about it.

How bad is the reserve system there, assuming you live in base. Reserve sucks at ANY commuter airline. I've flown for 3 part 121 airlines, two regionals and one major. Reserve at BOTH regionals was terrible. What's different about Pinnacle? Again, please assume you live within an hour drive of your base airport.

Thanks for any info.

It's not near as bad if you live in base. Basically you'll get 10 days off with a reserve line and you'll probably work every single one of the other 21 days. I hear MSP only has 6 reserve lines this month, so the reserve pilots are kept pretty busy. Expect lots of CDOs, 6 leg days, 14 hour duty days, and frequent reduced rest overnights. If you haven't reached 30 in 7 by the end of your scheduled 5 days of reserve, you stand a pretty good chance of being junior manned on your days off. Lots of guys have been reduced to 8 days off a month and never received comp days. The company would rather pay you the 3.75 hours than give you the day off. In a nutshell, just expect to be worked the bone while on reserve. It's bearable if you live in base, but commuting just makes it hell.

 

[Lear70]

Reserve if you live in domicile isn't too bad, I just refused to move to Motow, Snowtown, or Notown (mention it to KM - it's her joke). 90 minute callout (no give or take there, you show in 90 minutes or you get a Missed-Trip).

Ready reserve still exists in Memphis but not in DTW or MSP... for now. It JUST went away (right after all the "lifers" got off reserve in the summer - thanks a lot). Get used to watching a lot of TV in the crew lounge if ready reserve lines come back, but I don't think they will anytime soon. The new "acting" VP of flt ops wasn't a big fan of ready reserve - very inefficient use of staff and he knows it.

The really aggravating thing about reserve is that you COMPLETELY give up your life to Crew Scheduling. You can be Junior Assigned or Extended into an off day and you may NOT refuse the assignment or face disciplinary action. You are NEVER further out in off days than they can assign so you will always be contactable for your J.A. or Ext, and they have NO mercy for your previous commitments. You can be brought in ahead of your show time on your first day and extended all the way to the end of the day on your last day with no additional pay to show for it and compensatory days off are next to impossible to coordinate realistically. It's not a friendly working environment, but you make the best of it, try to have as much fun as possible, and go home.

PCL-128 is right on about the vacancies in my opinion, except that I do see the vacancies getting smaller on the next two; this company has a tendency to short-staff the Captains knowing full well that they can churn out some CA's from the F/O's in a few weeks if they underestimate their need (as they did this month). Then when they see they've understaffed they'll come out with an "adjustment" vacancy to get their final numbers where they want them in early Fall.

He did exaggerate a little bit about PERPETUAL reserve although it will be at least 3 or 4 years at a MINIMUM, assuming the same attrition we've had lately. 1300 pilots by the end of hiring, 600 Captains, 700 F/O's, of those 700 F/O's, a good 500 of them will be senior to the "street captains", and assuming a 5% attrition ratio, that's only 65 Captains per YEAR leaving, 500 above you before you get off reserve,,, you do the math.

And I thought WE had it long on reserve... just want everyone to know what they're getting into but I came here because I knew I was getting permanently furloughed and had an option to make a decent living and took it. I'm sure many others are now in similar boats and I hope that you can at least make this a place to hang out until the industry improves.

 

[flagshipper]

There is no ready reserve in MEM. It justs looks like that on the bid pack because there is only one reserve period a day with no am pm and late divisions. I have been online now going on seven months and besides JAN i have had 8-10 days off a month with only one month of that being on reserve. Junior mans and extensions are the norm around there and just not answering the phone will not work because we are required to checkout and they have it waiting for you there. I like my days off but on FO pay I like my checks that are over 100 hours pay more with maybe 80 actual blocked. But a new deal for first few days of the month bring open time pay up to 150%. I have already grabbed 9 hours worth of that. Fly Fly Fly

 

[Lear70]

That's interesting, because there's a pilot who's been sitting on ready reserve almost every day I've come to work this month in MEM...


The new "experiment" is an interesting first for the company and lets you know just how desperate they really are for crews - looks like someone screwed the pooch on staffing levels... again.

We'll see if it's a concept that stays or just shows up when the company is short. If enough people pick the time up it will reduce the number of pilots the airline plans to hire because we will be solving their problem for them. Just a point to ponder.

 

[propjob27]

Lear, what do you mean by this:

"You are NEVER further out in off days than they can assign so you will always be contactable for your J.A. or Ext, and they have NO mercy for your previous commitments."

I understand how they can junior man your at work, but having OPS force you to call scheduling, etc.

However, once you are at home, how can they? No company on the planet, that I'm aware of, can force you to answer your cell phone on your day off.

Did I misunderstand your comment? Maybe you meant if you are off tuesday - thursday, and while flying on Monday they JA you for a turn on thursday...

Thanks

 

[Rook]

yeah that's right pjob. You have no right to answer your phone on your day off. C'mon over. Get the captain slot ASAP get a crashpad in DTW and try not to get too bent when you start getting JM'd and extended. Just remember your best friend is yourself, and get used to the company going outside the contract. You'll hear "if you dont like it, grieve it" on a regular basis. PM any one of us if you got any more questions.

Rook

 

[John_W_Thompson]

But a new deal for first few days of the month bring open time pay up to 150%. I have already grabbed 9 hours worth of that. Fly Fly Fly

Flagshipper can you explain what you are mentioning here? I would like to learn to do it.

space

 

[PCL_128]

Flagshipper can you explain what you are mentioning here? I would like to learn to do it.

space

The MEC made an agreement yesterday with management to allow pilots to pick up open time on the 1st-4th of the month for 150% pay. Basically the new VP Flt Ops realized they were so understaffed that they couldn't possibly cover all the open time without making some sort of deal for an incentive. Hopefully it works well so we can keep doing it in the future. Go to the airlinkpilots.com message board and read Wake's message about it to find out how to take advantage of the opportunity if you've got those days off.

 

[John_W_Thompson]

Suweet (for people who want it) Will do...

 

[flagshipper]

That's interesting, because there's a pilot who's been sitting on ready reserve almost every day I've come to work this month in MEM...

He is probably a new FO who hasn't read his contract and scheduling called and told him to sit 24/7 ready reserve and he agreed because jets make you drool. HAHAHAHAHAHa

 

[Lear70]

Nope, he's been here for quite a while now (several years anyway). I asked him about it, something about messing up his bids and he got assigned airport ready almost every day.

Lear, what do you mean by this:

"You are NEVER further out in off days than they can assign so you will always be contactable for your J.A. or Ext, and they have NO mercy for your previous commitments."

I understand how they can junior man your at work, but having OPS force you to call scheduling, etc.

Well, I'll try to keep it as short as possible. Reserve here is built 5 days on, 2 days off, 5 days on, 3 days off, over and over and over again. The only thing you can change on your monthly bid is what day you start your days on (within the first 3 days of the month).

That means that on your last day when you check out, you are junior assignable up to three days in advance (your last day off), which as I said, makes you junior assignable on any off day. If you can escape without getting junior assigned or extended then of course you don't have to answer your phone, but crew scheduling has gotten VERY good at tagging people three days in advance for Junior Assignment. Just fair warning...

 

[dondk]

That means that on your last day when you check out, you are junior assignable up to three days in advance (your last day off), which as I said, makes you junior assignable on any off day. If you can escape without getting junior assigned or extended then of course you don't have to answer your phone, but crew scheduling has gotten VERY good at tagging people three days in advance for Junior Assignment. Just fair warning...

I thought this program was scrapped after our new female VP tried to implement it.

 

[Lear70]

Nope, still alive and well. The contract says that open time still available within 72 hours will be assigned in inverse seniority order and they're still doing that when they're not in crisis mode (which as you know isn't very often these days so it only SEEMS like it's slacked off).

The new "policy" from the company says they will OFFER it at Junior Assignment pay in seniority order but it's my understanding that guys like me who list "call last" are skipped and they only call the "call first" people on the way DOWN the seniority list, then J.A. on the way back up. Again, all that is ONLY if they have time because they aren't in panic mode (like yesterday).

I found two trips, one on the 2nd, one on the 3rd to fit into my schedule, put me close to 30/7 but legal, which will give me the 150% pay. Still waiting to find out if they gave them to me... Open time was going FAST yesterday so I filled up my calendar to nearly 100 hours of flying for the month, all on days I was already flying. Since they're building the trips so inefficiently now (4 hours block per day average - KMDA*) I put more legs on my trips to fly with other cews to get my block per day average up and maybe I'll time out 30/7 a few times and get a few extra days off per month!

* Trademark JH - Kiss My Dumb A*s!

 

[dondk]

The new "policy" from the company says they will OFFER it at Junior Assignment pay in seniority order but it's my understanding that guys like me who list "call last" are skipped and they only call the "call first" people on the way DOWN the seniority list, then J.A. on the way back up. Again, all that is ONLY if they have time because they aren't in panic mode (like yesterday).

Open time was going FAST yesterday

Ohhh.. the call last.. I do the same here, now I understand why my phone rings only on days off

I was afraid to hear open time was going fast... Does not seem like it will be an incentive for them to make better schedules, but for crew to work more to make their schedules better.

Hope they give you with close 30/7... a month ago the cut off was nothing above 29 hours.. I had a one at 29:10 and they pulled me from the last 2 to "avoid a 30/7 cancellation. This was after 30 minutes of negotiations with a scheduler who gave me the trip.