Pinnacle Pay Scale

[mwmav8r01]

Does any one have Pinnacle Airlines Pay scale?

Thanks

Matt

 

[T-Gates]

Take what you think is good, subtract 5%....you'll come close

Honestly, If I had the numbers in front of me I'd give them to you.

1st year is less than Mesa....

 

[Jiminmem]

FO: 5/04
year 1: 20.13 20.73
year 2: 23.68 24.39
year 3: 29.21 30.09
year 4: 32.21 33.28
Max after 7 years: 36.23

Captain:
year 1: 53.47 55.07
year 2: 55.11 56.76
year 3: 56.81 58.51
year 4: 58.55 60.31
year 5: 60.33 62.14
Max after 15 years: 82.37
Per Diem is $1.40 per hour. Contract up in 5/05

 

[mwmav8r01]

Thanks but what are the 2 sets of numbers?

Matt

 

[Jiminmem]

sorry, current numbers and those that take that are adjusted in May of 2004.

 

[BORN2FLY]

FO: 5/04
year 1: 20.13 20.73
year 2: 23.68 24.39
year 3: 29.21 30.09
year 4: 32.21 33.28
Max after 7 years: 36.23

Captain:
year 1: 53.47 55.07
year 2: 55.11 56.76
year 3: 56.81 58.51
year 4: 58.55 60.31
year 5: 60.33 62.14
Max after 15 years: 82.37
Per Diem is $1.40 per hour. Contract up in 5/05

DISGUSTING! As long as pilots allow management to pay them "peanuts", they will. The fact that this kind of financial absurdity is "acceptable" to some people is UNBELIEVABLE!

WAKE UP, PEOPLE!

 

[JJJ]

OK high and mighty born2fly, do you mind filling us in on where you fly and what the payscales were in May of 1999.

I don't care if people rip on Pinnacle, but most of the time they haven't a clue. When our contract was singed in 99 it was an average contract. In the past few years the other regionals have negotiated new contracts that are better than ours. So what has happened is that our contract changed from being average to horrible only because others have negotiated a better contract in the meantime. So when we negotiate a new contract in 05 can I call say that everyone elses contract is crap because we make 50 cents more per hour? You had your turn to improve a crappy contract and soon we will have our chance.

I came to Pinnacle from a so called "good regional". The payscales here are less in each seat, but the CA pay here is much better than the FO pay there. Quick upgrade vs. 5 or 6 year upgrade. When I took this job I was looking at the long term benefits. I think that having a few thousand hours of jet PIC will help more than having a few thousand hours of turbine SIC. Five years from now I will be in a better position by being here. For me it was and will continue to be that best choice for me.

I guarantee that if JetBlue, Airtran, SWA or any other airline ever hires me, I'm not going to say to myself "Gee, I wish I hadn't gone to Pinnacle". You need to think about the future.

 

[BORN2FLY]

JJJ,

Ok, tough guy...before you puff up your chest, you might want to remember that, on this forum, you may not actually know someone's real point of view after reading a few typed words. I wasn't trying to "only" single out Pinnacle with regards to my comments about pay. My comments were directed all the way across the board. Every airline besides the handful of "recognized", "real", major airlines is WAY behind the power curve when it comes to compensation. I understand that you still have yet to negotiate in '05 and, hopefully, you will be able to change things dramatically. My frustrations come from the thousands of other pilots at various companies...ie: Mesa and CHQ, to name a couple, who have recently decided to hold the rest of our industry back by voting "yes" to GROSSLY sub-par pay. I don't care if management says they'll close the doors. LET THEM! I know pizza delivery drivers who make more yearly than most first officers. So, if paying me more than a pizza driver or some uneducated TSA "genius" is going to close the doors on the company, then, by all means... CLOSE THEM!! My point is...it's time for US as pilots to take the stand. If WE truly demand to be paid as WE deserve, then WE will be. Period. I'm just sick of seeing pilots roll over and play dead when it comes to negotiations time.

 

[labbats]

Great post. I'll remember it when I cash my full-time CFI paycheck this month for a whopping $500.

Then I'll hold onto my hat and wait in a corner for reality to give way to this Regional Airline Utopia of yours.

This problem goes back further than jets. It goes back to where we all start from, and your seemingly lousy jet pay is a screaming upgrade from mine.

 

[FL717]

Ok, tough guy...before you puff up your chest, you might want to remember that, on this forum, you may not actually know someone's real point of view after reading a few typed words. I wasn't trying to "only" single out Pinnacle with regards to my comments about pay. My comments were directed all the way across the board.

You are the one who seems to be "puffing up your chest". Your comments are across the board?? The board seems a little big for you it appears.

My frustrations come from the thousands of other pilots at various companies...ie: Mesa and CHQ, to name a couple, who have recently decided to hold the rest of our industry back by voting "yes" to GROSSLY sub-par pay. .

Who is holding you back?? Who defines "GROSSLY" sub-par pay?? You?? How much are you making... and maybe the rest of us can compare and decide whether YOU are at "GROSSLY sub-par pay".

I don't care if management says they'll close the doors. LET THEM! I know pizza delivery drivers who make more yearly than most first officers. So, if paying me more than a pizza driver or some uneducated TSA "genius" is going to close the doors on the company, then, by all means... CLOSE THEM!!

Yeah.. real smart and bold advice since its not you on the chopping block. Maybe that person doesn't feel like delivering pizzas for a living. Bet I can name 25 professions that make more money than you. If I name one will you promise to leave this and go take it??

My point is...it's time for US as pilots to take the stand. If WE truly demand to be paid as WE deserve, then WE will be. Period. I'm just sick of seeing pilots roll over and play dead when it comes to negotiations time.

Once again I request you post who you work for and lets examine your compensation package.

1. Post your hourly salary.
2. Post your per diem.
3. Post your trip rig.
4. Post your duty rig.

After we have that info, we will all decide what is best for you, and if we don't like it you will have to quit or strike for better earnings, or at least better earnings according to all the rest of us.

Grow up little boy. Face reality, you are a FO who is probably underpaid and looking to better yourself by biding your time... just like all of us have done and will continue to do. I paid my dues and now earn a living better than 90% of the rest of the US population. Not much different than an medical intern who finally makes the "real" world.

 

[mwmav8r01]

Glad someone had the nerve to tell him off.. Way to go mr Airtran!!! Good night!

PS I live your airline and your airframe

Matt

 

[JJJ]

Well said FL717

 

[BORN2FLY]

After we have that info, we will all decide what is best for you, and if we don't like it you will have to quit or strike for better earnings, or at least better earnings according to all the rest of us.

All of these posts keep proving why we're treated like we are in this industry. I don't need to post all of my personal information in order to prove my point. It's not necessary. Obviously, I'm with a "regional" airline. Payscales are no secret. I take home around $1800-$2000 a month. Right now, we're all in the same boat. The "fact" that we're grossly underpaid is exactly that...FACT. Come on, man...with all your years of "experience" and wealth of "useful" knowledge, you have to be able to see that. It's not rocket science.

Yeah.. real smart and bold advice since it's not you on the chopping block.

Well genius, I AM on the chopping block. And, I'm MORE than ready to strike to change things.

Grow up little boy. Face reality, you are a FO who is probably underpaid and looking to better yourself by biding your time... just like all of us have done and will continue to do. I paid my dues and now earn a living better than 90% of the rest of the US population. Not much different than an medical intern who finally makes the "real" world.

I love how people on here are so quick to flex their "internet muscles." I'm not even going to get roped into responding to your personal insults. Without being face to face, it's pointless. As far as "reality" is concerned...I know all about it. I'm living it. My "reality" is I'm not living the lifestyle I DESERVE and I still can't pay my bills at the end of the month. The fact that you're busy attacking me for being fed up with our pitiful compensation and chalking it up as "paying my dues" is a BIG part of the problem too. I will say this though...congratulations on making more money than 90% of the population. That proves that you have nothing to relate to this discussion. You almighty senior pilots sitting up on your pedestals never cease to amaze me. I don't care how many decades you've been doing what you're doing. That doesn't mean that it's "ok" for US to be paid so poorly. I could spend days here proving how full of sh!t you are. But, quite frankly, you're not worth the effort. You just keep spending your money and coming on here to display what an a$$hole you are. Oh, and while you're at it...find a nice, quiet, relaxing location and go f@ck yourself.

 

[BORN2FLY]

Great post. I'll remember it when I cash my full-time CFI paycheck this month for a whopping $500.

I think you're GROSSLY underpaid too. I instructed for 2 and a half years. Been there...done that.

Then I'll hold onto my hat and wait in a corner for reality to give way to this Regional Airline Utopia of yours.

That's the BIGGEST part of the problem. You're exactly right.

This problem goes back further than jets. It goes back to where we all start from, and your seemingly lousy jet pay is a screaming upgrade from mine.

I guarantee you that a few thousand hours from now, when your neck deep in this "screaming upgrade" you speak of, your opinion will be quite different. Hopefully, WE will have paved a better road for you by then.

 

[FL717]

All of these posts keep proving why we're treated like we are in this industry. I don't need to post all of my personal information in order to prove my point. It's not necessary. Obviously, I'm with a "regional" airline. Payscales are no secret. I take home around $1800-$2000 a month. Right now, we're all in the same boat. The "fact" that we're grossly underpaid is exactly that...FACT.

Why then do you continue to "be the problem"?? Do something about it. Quit and work only at a job that pays you what you think you are worth.

I love how people on here are so quick to flex their "internet muscles." I'm not even going to get roped into responding to your personal insults.

What internet muscle?? Oh.. you mean the one like your big bold fonted post that led me to my response. Is that the "muscle" you refer too?? Oh... in case you are having a time dealing with "facts"... you in fact did get "roped" into a reply.

The fact that you're busy attacking me for being fed up with our pitiful compensation and chalking it up as "paying my dues" is a BIG part of the problem too.

I'm not busy. I also never said anything about YOU paying your dues. I only said I paid MY dues. I said you were "biding your time.

That proves that you have nothing to relate to this discussion. .

I obviously have alot to add to this discussion. I am at least able to try and construct a debate to your "rant"... its you who gives the overall impression that you have nothing to add.

I could spend days here proving how full of sh!t you are. But, quite frankly, you're not worth the effort.

I'm full of sh!t?? You can't even answer any of my original questions. You are right about one thing though... it would take you days.. actually probably weeks to prove anything. You can't even formulate a non emotional reply to the topic at hand. Maybe you are worth what you get paid?

You just keep spending your money and coming on here to display what an a$$hole you are.

I said nothing about spending my money, or spending money period. Someone needs to get a grip.

Oh, and while you're at it...find a nice, quiet, relaxing location and go f@ck yourself.

Lovely.... just lovely.

 

[BORN2FLY]

Why then do you continue to "be the problem"?? Do something about it. Quit and work only at a job that pays you what you think you are worth.

I never said I didn't love my job. I only said I hate the pay. And, rather than quit, I'd like to see things made right. But, thanks for your advice.

What internet muscle?? Oh.. you mean the one like your big bold fonted post that led me to my response. Is that the "muscle" you refer too?? Oh... in case you are having a time dealing with "facts"... you in fact did get "roped" into a reply.

I'm refering to the "internet muscle" you were trying to flex by dishing out personal insults. And, as to the last sentence in your above paragraph...how old are you? I was under the impression that you are an older, senior pilot from your original post. But, you certainly don't act it.

I obviously have alot to add to this discussion. I am at least able to try and construct a debate to your "rant"... its you who gives the overall impression that you have nothing to add.

I didn't say you had nothing to "add" to the discussion. I said you can't "relate" to it. And, since you make more money than 90% of the population, you can't.

I'm full of sh!t?? You can't even answer any of my original questions. You are right about one thing though... it would take you days.. actually probably weeks to prove anything. You can't even formulate a non emotional reply to the topic at hand. Maybe you are worth what you get paid?

"Lovely...just lovely."

Look, this shouldn't even be an "argument." It's a FACT that we're very underpaid for the job that we perform. Period. Noone can argue this. When a 4th year pilot still can't make more than $2000 a month, the problem is obvious. It's pretty sad that you can't see that. The really sad thing is that you and the rest of the guys above choose to flame me instead of recognizing the obvious. All I was trying to say in the beginning was that if we all got on the same page and demanded "X" number of dollars to fly their airplanes, we would get it. Unfortunately, there are a lot of guys with views like yours that enable management to pit us against each other rather than make things better. Every time a pilot group accepts a TA that isn't changing the pace to better compensation, it's holding the rest of the industry back. Like I said before, it's not rocket science. The only people who disagree are the ones who are with the companies who accepted those contracts. Well, sorry they can't handle the truth. But, it is what it is. My pilot group IS on the "chopping block" right now and I'm confident that we'll do OUR part to change things for the better. If not, then I'll fully welcome everyone else's criticism. The worst part is, if we do change things drastically, we have to worry about some other company who accepts ridiculous payscales, coming in and undercutting us. This is what management loves. As long as they can't keep us under the table fighting for "scraps", they'll continue to be able to pay us the crap that we're getting now. But, think...if we all got on the same page, what could we accomplish?

 

[dondk]

I am only going to chime in a bit here...

Look at ALL regionals.. Most (with a FEW exceptions) had thier contracts done with an all prop fleet. This prop fleet held 30-50% LESS pax than the current jet or mixed fleet. The companies could not justify paying salaries for the pax loads they were carrying. If you do not believe that, look at the few regionals that are all prop, those are STILL on the lower part of the pay scales. A rarer few did or do have decent wage scales for thier all prop fleet... take a look at those companies and how well they are doing.

A FEW regionals today have been lucky to get some increases in the wage department, others are just holding their own.

Look at majors or nationals.. Most are losing in the wage department, some are holding their own.

From a PURE business perspective. Your the boss... you see most of your LARGEST competitors lowering prices, you see your closests competition lowering prices, you see the little guys beneath you holding prices.. Are you going to go out an RAISE you prices?

Management is out for themselves they do not care about you and how you feed your family. It does not help that fact that there are other managements that will do just about anything to make a few bucks more, even if that means taking business away from someone else (isn't that the nature of business anyway?)

Before 9/11 the average regional pilot was doing about 5 years before moving to a larger carrier, that mindset has not left management (yet).

This problem is not the Mesa's or Chq's of the industry.. it is the industry itself....
Look at the bigger picture.. 10 years ago, regionals were "commuters". When THEY grew did the salaries grow? where are most of those commuter pilots from 10 years ago now?

Yes, I work for Pinnacle.. do I like my wages? NO, but I was not here when the contract was signed. But.. there is ONE thing I do have.. that is a job... and the second thing I have presently is somewhat of security. Do I think I deserve more money? absolutely, do I think it will take years of arguments to net me that extra 30% or more I think "I" deserve? Absolutely again.. Comair did well, but they were in the perfect position for the perfect time. Do you think (or they) that they would do the same now? Before Comair did well though, how many other majors rasied the bar? it was "natural progression" to filter down to the regionals. Those times have changed... it will be an uphill battle...

Right now there are how many other pilots who want your seat? How many of them would take it for less? And I am not talking about other regional pilots either, I am talking about the dude with barely a 1000 hours who wants to get out of that 152. Teach them first and then "maybe" you can change the industry. As long as someone will take a job for less than $20 an hour to work for an airline, your not going to change anything.

 

[FL717]

This problem is not the Mesa's or Chq's of the industry.. it is the industry itself....

Look at the bigger picture.. 10 years ago, regionals were "commuters". When THEY grew did the salaries grow? where are most of those commuter pilots from 10 years ago now?

As long as someone will take a job for less than $20 an hour to work for an airline, your not going to change anything.

I will quote you since Born2fly has got to be one of the bigger idiots to post on this forum. The statements that you wrote and I quoted above are all right on the money.

Pilots at almost all regionals are in fact grossly underpaid. Noone is or can dispute that fact. The benefits and total workrules are also atrocious. Only when you get to a large national or major do things change. Thats why we all put up with this BS. How else are you going to get there right now?

But.... it is absolutely idiotic and moronic for someone like Born2fly to come here on these forums and blast into his rants about how a particular pilot group is "holding back the profession". Where the he!! has he been for the past 10 years?? Obviously not working in the airline industry. The only "regional" airline that I can think of that really stuck their neck out and tried and somewhat succeeded in "making a difference" was Comair. And some of their pilots are STILL underpaid for what they do. Is it right. NO. But what choice do you or the rest of the people who need the time and experience have??

So you have a choice... play or get out. Born2fly... you chose to play, so shut yer yapper and worry about YOUR airline, and stop yelling at the other kids in the sandbox as if it will really change things. And stop taking this board so d@mn serious. You get all worked up and start crying over everything.

 

[BORN2FLY]

I will quote you since Born2fly has got to be one of the bigger idiots to post on this forum.

This statement makes no sense at all. Because I'm an "idiot", you're going to quote him? OMG! I hope you feel HALF as stupid for typing that as I think you are while reading it. Why do you feel it necessary to personally attack me instead of just making an "unemotional", "intelligent" point? Get over yourself...you're nothing more than just another chump who likes to stir up an argument over the internet because you probably know it's the only fight you "feel like" you can win. Quite frankly, you're pretty pitiful.

The statements that you wrote and I quoted above are all right on the money.

I'm SO glad you said that...because that's exactly what I've been saying this whole time. GO BACK AND READ AGAIN! The only difference is that I mentioned a couple of names as examples. Well, boo-fuc$ing-hoo...if the shoe fits, you have to wear it.

Who defines "GROSSLY" sub-par pay?? You?? How much are you making... and maybe the rest of us can compare and decide whether YOU are at "GROSSLY sub-par pay".

This was an earlier post from "FL717 - Personality #1"... (see below)

Pilots at almost all regionals are in fact grossly underpaid. Noone is or can dispute that fact. The benefits and total workrules are also atrocious.

Now, this is your most recent post from "FL717 - Personality #2." Make up your mind dumbass. What you just stated in your latest post is EXACTLY what you've been flaming me for posting this whole time. You might want to seek out some kind of medication. Above, you disputed the "GROSSLY sub-par pay." Now, you clearly state that we are "grossly underpaid." What kind of idiot are you?

But.... it is absolutely idiotic and moronic for someone like Born2fly to come here on these forums and blast into his rants about how a particular pilot group is "holding back the profession".

I wasn't just slamming a particular pilot group. I merely mentioned a couple of the most recent DOCUMENTED, agreed upon payscales that continue the race to the bottom. Like I said...it is what it is...FACT. And, in your above post, you actually acknowledge it. So, decide what your stand is going to be and take it!

So you have a choice... play or get out. Born2fly... you chose to play, so shut yer yapper and worry about YOUR airline, and stop yelling at the other kids in the sandbox as if it will really change things. And stop taking this board so d@mn serious. You get all worked up and start crying over everything.

Noone is "crying" here but you. Maybe one of these days you can get over yourself and have enough integrity to admit that you just contradicted yourself. When you can grow up and be a man, maybe you'll be able to see that we're arguing the same point. Until then, good ridence!

 

[FL717]

Born2fly:
I am going to respond to this just to prove that you will not be able to "not get roped in". You will absolutely have to have the last word here and I will enjoy your inability to resist.

Here we go genius.

This statement makes no sense at all. Because I'm an "idiot", you're going to quote him? OMG! I hope you feel HALF as stupid for typing that as I think you are while reading it.

I quoted his statement because your statements were too stupid to repeat.

Noone is "crying" here but you.

Uhh... no I believe you were the one who came on this thread entitled "PINNACLE PAY SCALE" and started crying about Mesa and Chautauqua pilots "holding you back" blah...sob...blah...sob.

I've been there... done that, and have the uniform hanging in my closet. It really sucked but it was a choice I made to endure, and it paid off. It was a means to an end. I now earn 6 figures... so nope, I'm not the one crying and I have no regrets.

Maybe one of these days you can get over yourself and have enough integrity to admit that you just contradicted yourself. When you can grow up and be a man, maybe you'll be able to see that we're arguing the same point.

Interesting statement. I don't have to get over myself. I speak facts about me... if thats bad then so be it. I have not contradicted myself. You simply have not been able to grasp what my point is... and what we are arguing about. We are not arguing pay scales. We are arguing about your rants. You remember... the ones about delivering pizzas, and shutting the place down. Remember that??!!

I asked and you have refused to divulge who you work for and what your compensation is. We (all us on this forum) will then evaluate and decide whether you should start delivering pizza or shut the place down. Pretty simply eh?!

Until then, good ridence!

Its spelled riddance (if you went to a good college).

Eagerly awaiting your finely tuned, cognitive reply.

Love,

FL717