Pinnacle Classes

[T-Gates]

So, would you guys like to have 1 list with NW?

Bye Bye--General Lee

I would.....

 

[Lear70]

George, to answer your question a little more specifically:

We have been hiring about 150 a year the last 3-4 years. The top 150 guys have been here 4-7+ years (some 10 to 14) and are (with a handful of exceptions) all Captains.

The next 100 guys (150-250) have been here 4-5 years and are almost all Captains.

The next 100 guys (250-350) have been here 3-4 years and half are Captains, half have the time and are awaiting upgrade. This is the seniority range the upgrades have been going to the last few vacancies

The next 100 guys (350-450) have been here 2-3 years (including myself) and a few here and there are Captains, either by hiring into the seat or upgrading as an occassional fluke because more senior people didn't yet hold the time or didn't want to bid away from the Saab (and have to go to DTW or MSP). Most of these guys now hold the time and are awaiting upgrade.

The last 200+ guys are all f/o's. Some hold the time, some don't. How many of these upgrade before we get the last of the jets presently allocated is dependent on who holds the time and submits the bid. We're currently running a staffing ratio of about 4 crews per a/c. 129 a/c = 516 Captains, 516 F/O's (assuming even staffing. If we get more jets, you can adjust those numbers using that 4 crews per a/c staffing ratio). So assuming everyone at the top of the list will hold the time and upgrade, most everyone hired from here on out is looking at sitting as an f/o for several years.

THAT'S why F/O pay is on the top of the list for the next contract (our own CEO agreed that our F/O's are woefully underpaid); if it's tied to 60% of Captain pay for longevity, a 1st year F/O would start out around $30k and would go up from there (depending on what we negotiate next contract). Not great, but certainly liveable for most people as a first step after instructing or one of the schools like GIA, etc.

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My esteemed General Lee (I AM a Southerner after all), the answer to your question depends on who you ask.

A lot of our senior guys have said "No" to this discussion before (I'm still trying to figure out why).

If they put up fences (seat locks) on everyone for 3-5 years so that no furloughs or seat displacements would occur, made it TRULY one list, and we got the associated pay and scheduling rules that go with NWA's contract, I don't see why ANY pilot would say no.

It's a win-win for the pilot groups, a lose-lose for management, so as someone said previously, don't bet the farm on it.

 

[cl-65link]

They were probably saying "no" to the onelist before because no mention was made of seat locks or fences, until now.

 

[ForgedBlade]

Hope they keep hiring so you guys can get off reserve! Two years of it was enough for me, especially that inhumane @#%$!(*& airport reserve!! Cheers!

 

[JJJ]

one list with seat locks would be good for every one. From work rules to retirement. There would be no scope, NWA could get as many RJ's as they want,and furloughees would be back to work in short order.

 

[chperplt]

That's the average reserve schedule? How many on/off in a row?

Thanks

 

[Lear70]

The contract minimum is 10 days off for any monthly bid period. Crew Planning has refused to give us more days off than that except for all-ready reserve lines, even when we have extra staffing. Their excuse was, "We don't want crews to get used to more than that then complain when we get short of crews and it goes down to 10."

I don't know what the other bases are doing, but they've been letting me build the DTW reserve lines and on the average, they are 5 days on, 2 days off, 5 days on, 3 days off, and so on for the month. On some lines, we can build one 4-day off block but the rest of the off periods are only two days off each for the rest of the month.

Some lines are 12-day off all-ready-reserve (you sit at the airport for 9 hours waiting for a last-second call which rarely happens), some lines are all home reserve which is a 90-minute call-out period. The rest of the lines are mixed for commuters: the first day is late ready reserve from 18:30 until 22:50, then 3 home reserve days, then an a.m. ready reserve from 0750 until 1650.

Dropping or picking up days has been very difficult lately, so your schedule is pretty much set. The good news is, the new-hires are rarely sitting more than 90 days on reserve before they become line holders. As the bases grow, that could get to be a 4-6 month period of reserve, but it depends on the base and staffing mix.

Hope that answered your question.