Pinnacle Airlines

[Fallingbrick]

“I know that Pinnacle has some sort of agreement to get some of their pilots from Gulfstream Academy. Does anyone know when they will be going back there for interviews.”


This is the kind of thinking that Pi$$es CFIs off. I recently talked a buddy of mine out of paying GA so he could "get to the right seat fast!" Get a CFI, pay your dues, and exercise a little patience. When are people going to realize that the days of getting hired below 1000 hours are over? Yes it sucks but that’s the way it is. My CFI was flying 121 by the time he had 600 hours. Times have changed! It took me years of instructing to finally get a FO job offer (and I’m still waiting in the pool).

I’m curious how Pinnacle pilots treat the GA new hires. Has anyone had problems with them? I just think it would be a recipe for disaster having a 300 hour pilot go into CRJ ground school.

My $0.02

 

[dondk]

Has any pinnacle pilot treated a GIA dude poorly...

Not to my knowledge, I know a few are still sore about how they "bumped" some of our buddies, but that is about it. Some of the GIA people are really sharp, some have attitudes, some are.. well slackers.. But then again I just described the better part of our non GIA people!

Now.. down in MEM I have personally (unfortunately) witnessed some GIA wash out, so they never get to the line to be a problem. Our training is not known to be the best, heck I think most of us would like it to be decent. Our company is also not known to "go the extra mile" and I have seen that first hand many times.

As a CFI I agree, the fast track is gone... Even IF you are lucky enough to fast track you will be warming the right seat for years on end barely making enough to survive.

 

[DoinTime]

I've flown with quite a few of our GIA guys and they are indistinguishable from any other new hire. If someone can make it through Pinnacle's southern style (read backwards) training program, they must have something going on upstairs.

Most guys that I have talked to have regreted their decision to go to GIA but there isn't much they can about it after they are finished and are thrown out into the real world. As long as people realize their mistakes and learn from them you won't catch me riding them for it.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Are they also indistinguishable from the new hires that come over after being furloughed from other airlines? I.e.: NWA.

There are a lot of qualified people out there, in other words.

I think we can leave the 500 hr pilots to the cessna for a while, hmm?

 

[KeroseneDream]

Re: Like Simon Says

I would like to see the FAA would raise the 121 mins for FO's to 1200 TT like part 135.

Not defending PFT in anyway. Just wanted to clarify that the 1200 TT is only for Part 135 IFR PIC, has nothing to do with FO's

 

[T-Gates]

I've flown with quite a few of our GIA guys and they are indistinguishable from any other new hire. If someone can make it through Pinnacle's southern style (read backwards) training program, they must have something going on upstairs.

Most guys that I have talked to have regreted their decision to go to GIA but there isn't much they can about it after they are finished and are thrown out into the real world. As long as people realize their mistakes and learn from them you won't catch me riding them for it.

Thank You.... Finally a true to heart post....

--T

 

[T-Gates]

Are they also indistinguishable from the new hires that come over after being furloughed from other airlines? I.e.: NWA.

There are a lot of qualified people out there, in other words.

I think we can leave the 500 hr pilots to the cessna for a while, hmm?

Who cares about TT if someones flying is just fine? I just had a captain bend my ear this morning telling me about all the trouble he had with a new FO with twice my TT....

Yeah, in this climate there are a whole bunch (thousands) of people out there with dam near 5x my TT who have a few types and 121 PIC time.... But I walked in a resume of a friend of mine with 3000TT, Heavy Jet experience and almost 1000 turbine PIC and HR told me he was over-qualified! Go figure....

--T

 

[Cadillac]

kerosene dream

Not to be a jerk,

but I think those of us who have flown part 135 know what I meant. 121 FO's should at least have 1200 TT. If it is the base requirement to fly as PIC part 135, it should at least be required as the base to fly as SIC in part 121.

I also like 100 LL again's idea of requiring an ATP to stop this 600 hour bridge BS. As most rational people understand, there are some people that will be able to succeed at 600 hours, but the majority will not. And its not cool

 

[DoinTime]

As most rational people understand, there are some people that will be able to succeed at 600 hours, but the majority will not.

The vast majority (95+%) of the sub-600 hour pilots that we have had here (and there have been a lot over the years) successfully completed their initial training and gone on to be successful FO's and later captains. I've heard similar success rates from guys at Eagle and ACA when they had these programs in place. The only difference between a guy with 600 hours and a guy with 1200 hours is that the guy with 600 hours doesn't think he knows everything.

 

[Rook]

I get along good with some of the guys from GIA. The only issue I have is with not being to help those guys still banging around in a caravan or baron without enough money to PFT. I was able to help a former student of mine get on here (and he's been hating me ever since)but have not been able to get another guy in with a lot of baron time banging around at Starcheck express. H.R. told me he had too much time. Go figure.

That's my 10 cents
my 2 cents is free
Nuisance who sent,
YOU SENT FOR ME?

Rook

600' AGL Autopilot on.
'WHEW!'

 

[38tango]

GIA and pinnacle

I've got to say, I think the attacks on the PFT are a little unfounded. I sure as hell tried to teach and do my time, but after 9-11 there wasn't an instructor job in sight in my home town, and the flight school I was already working for went tango uniform.

Anyway my point is, to all of you bitter old salts with thousands of hours who think we're trying to just buy our way in, times have changed. Back when I got my CFI and flew a jump plane for cessna hours, I was trying to do my time the traditional way. But now that jobs are harder than ever to come by, this pool of furloughed pilots has come in and taken over the standard crappy time building deals. Fine, I accept that...and they deserve it more than us lower time guys. After all, they've done more time and this is an industry based on seniority.

I have a real problem with the generalizations some of you guys have made about Gulfstream. No, it wasn't my first choice to get into the the 121 scene. No, not all of the pilots who come out of it are aces. No, it's not the traditional way of getting those bars on your shoulders. But take this into account:

1. If it weren't for this, or some other PFT program, I'd be fueling learjets and king airs just to make ends meet.

2. Despite what you all think, 95% of the people at this school are here on a sizable loan that is going to take a fair chunk of time to pay back, and not their daddy's wallets.

3. Everyone who comes here doesn't make it. You don't just get thrown into the airplane. There are almost 6 weeks of classes and evaluations, all of which you must pass to fly. I've personally witnessed a few people who couldn't cut the mustard being told to find another career.

4. It's not like I bought a job. After my 250 SIC hours are gone it's up to me to find a job. All I really did was purchase an airline indoc class and 250 hours in a Turboprop. And hour for hour it's a hell of a deal compared to doing turns around a point in a cessna.

So when I finish this and have my measly 950 hours total time...I'm still just like everyone else, only with some quality training and experience under my belt. Two years ago I'd have been in the right seat of an RJ by now...but oh well. Back off the PFT people...it's just a building block that's a means to the ultimate goal. Sorry it's gotten such a bad reputation, but it's a truly unfounded one.

 

[dondk]

This whole PFT ( I am not for it) and GIA deal is the way life is. To say there should be minimums before a person can take a 121 job is just arrogant. There are many carriers out there that ARE hiring, although it is not into a RJ. They are in 1900's, Jetstream's, or even a Metro's.

Bottom line is that those companies with those aircraft are rarely getting the 3-5K hour pilots. So to say there should be a minimum will not do anything but hurt those people who want a job and really do not care about what they fly or where.


As a side note... If Jet Blue, Continental, NorthWest, or Delta tomorrow came out and said.. Hey, if you have 3000/1000 and $30K we will give you a job in the right seat...

How high do you think the stack of resumes would be by the end of the day? I'd go 2' or better....

PFT in any variation will never end, it is something we ALL have to live with. For the GIA people at Pinnacle, they have to live with people junior to them upgrading before them, and for some of them.. they may be waiting a lot longer than 3 years.. That is enough of a "payback", paying the loan to go to GIA on our FO's salary.. I doubt they would have enough left for Ramen...

 

[BRA]

They have to "live" with people junior to them upgrading???? Poor things. They are "living"with this while they are sitting at around 1000-2000 tt right?? Next time one complains about sitting right seat....tell them to go sit right seat in a 152 for 600 hours. I think they will begin to appreciate that right seat in the RJ again.

You need 1500TT mininmum & ATP to be a 121 captain. Plus whatever insurance dictates. You need a commercial multi to be a 121 FO. I agree that something could change with that.

Having to pay back the GIA loan on a 1st year FO's salary........which problem is creating which here??

 

[BrokeAssPilot]

F!!K all you gulfstream punks!!

I would love to have an airshow with you all trying to fly an airplane for real. I would bet your little paid for the job right seat in an RJ would go up in smoke if you tried to fly a one.

Bet you your job you can not get in an old school Champ or Cub (if you even know what that is) an get it off the ground and back safley without killing your stupid ass!!!

You would ask somebody what the "Systems" or "V-speeds" are because you are all a bunch of little panty waste robots!!

Give 'em Hell to had to earn a job!!!

 

[NDPILOT]

If it makes you feel better, i would probably kill my "stupid ass" in a champ or a cub also.