Pinnacle Airlines

[T-Gates]

I've flown with quite a few of our GIA guys and they are indistinguishable from any other new hire. If someone can make it through Pinnacle's southern style (read backwards) training program, they must have something going on upstairs.

Most guys that I have talked to have regreted their decision to go to GIA but there isn't much they can about it after they are finished and are thrown out into the real world. As long as people realize their mistakes and learn from them you won't catch me riding them for it.

Thank You.... Finally a true to heart post....

--T

 

[T-Gates]

Are they also indistinguishable from the new hires that come over after being furloughed from other airlines? I.e.: NWA.

There are a lot of qualified people out there, in other words.

I think we can leave the 500 hr pilots to the cessna for a while, hmm?

Who cares about TT if someones flying is just fine? I just had a captain bend my ear this morning telling me about all the trouble he had with a new FO with twice my TT....

Yeah, in this climate there are a whole bunch (thousands) of people out there with dam near 5x my TT who have a few types and 121 PIC time.... But I walked in a resume of a friend of mine with 3000TT, Heavy Jet experience and almost 1000 turbine PIC and HR told me he was over-qualified! Go figure....

--T

 

[Cadillac]

kerosene dream

Not to be a jerk,

but I think those of us who have flown part 135 know what I meant. 121 FO's should at least have 1200 TT. If it is the base requirement to fly as PIC part 135, it should at least be required as the base to fly as SIC in part 121.

I also like 100 LL again's idea of requiring an ATP to stop this 600 hour bridge BS. As most rational people understand, there are some people that will be able to succeed at 600 hours, but the majority will not. And its not cool

 

[DoinTime]

As most rational people understand, there are some people that will be able to succeed at 600 hours, but the majority will not.

The vast majority (95+%) of the sub-600 hour pilots that we have had here (and there have been a lot over the years) successfully completed their initial training and gone on to be successful FO's and later captains. I've heard similar success rates from guys at Eagle and ACA when they had these programs in place. The only difference between a guy with 600 hours and a guy with 1200 hours is that the guy with 600 hours doesn't think he knows everything.

 

[Rook]

I get along good with some of the guys from GIA. The only issue I have is with not being to help those guys still banging around in a caravan or baron without enough money to PFT. I was able to help a former student of mine get on here (and he's been hating me ever since)but have not been able to get another guy in with a lot of baron time banging around at Starcheck express. H.R. told me he had too much time. Go figure.

That's my 10 cents
my 2 cents is free
Nuisance who sent,
YOU SENT FOR ME?

Rook

600' AGL Autopilot on.
'WHEW!'

 

[38tango]

GIA and pinnacle

I've got to say, I think the attacks on the PFT are a little unfounded. I sure as hell tried to teach and do my time, but after 9-11 there wasn't an instructor job in sight in my home town, and the flight school I was already working for went tango uniform.

Anyway my point is, to all of you bitter old salts with thousands of hours who think we're trying to just buy our way in, times have changed. Back when I got my CFI and flew a jump plane for cessna hours, I was trying to do my time the traditional way. But now that jobs are harder than ever to come by, this pool of furloughed pilots has come in and taken over the standard crappy time building deals. Fine, I accept that...and they deserve it more than us lower time guys. After all, they've done more time and this is an industry based on seniority.

I have a real problem with the generalizations some of you guys have made about Gulfstream. No, it wasn't my first choice to get into the the 121 scene. No, not all of the pilots who come out of it are aces. No, it's not the traditional way of getting those bars on your shoulders. But take this into account:

1. If it weren't for this, or some other PFT program, I'd be fueling learjets and king airs just to make ends meet.

2. Despite what you all think, 95% of the people at this school are here on a sizable loan that is going to take a fair chunk of time to pay back, and not their daddy's wallets.

3. Everyone who comes here doesn't make it. You don't just get thrown into the airplane. There are almost 6 weeks of classes and evaluations, all of which you must pass to fly. I've personally witnessed a few people who couldn't cut the mustard being told to find another career.

4. It's not like I bought a job. After my 250 SIC hours are gone it's up to me to find a job. All I really did was purchase an airline indoc class and 250 hours in a Turboprop. And hour for hour it's a hell of a deal compared to doing turns around a point in a cessna.

So when I finish this and have my measly 950 hours total time...I'm still just like everyone else, only with some quality training and experience under my belt. Two years ago I'd have been in the right seat of an RJ by now...but oh well. Back off the PFT people...it's just a building block that's a means to the ultimate goal. Sorry it's gotten such a bad reputation, but it's a truly unfounded one.

 

[dondk]

This whole PFT ( I am not for it) and GIA deal is the way life is. To say there should be minimums before a person can take a 121 job is just arrogant. There are many carriers out there that ARE hiring, although it is not into a RJ. They are in 1900's, Jetstream's, or even a Metro's.

Bottom line is that those companies with those aircraft are rarely getting the 3-5K hour pilots. So to say there should be a minimum will not do anything but hurt those people who want a job and really do not care about what they fly or where.


As a side note... If Jet Blue, Continental, NorthWest, or Delta tomorrow came out and said.. Hey, if you have 3000/1000 and $30K we will give you a job in the right seat...

How high do you think the stack of resumes would be by the end of the day? I'd go 2' or better....

PFT in any variation will never end, it is something we ALL have to live with. For the GIA people at Pinnacle, they have to live with people junior to them upgrading before them, and for some of them.. they may be waiting a lot longer than 3 years.. That is enough of a "payback", paying the loan to go to GIA on our FO's salary.. I doubt they would have enough left for Ramen...

 

[BRA]

They have to "live" with people junior to them upgrading???? Poor things. They are "living"with this while they are sitting at around 1000-2000 tt right?? Next time one complains about sitting right seat....tell them to go sit right seat in a 152 for 600 hours. I think they will begin to appreciate that right seat in the RJ again.

You need 1500TT mininmum & ATP to be a 121 captain. Plus whatever insurance dictates. You need a commercial multi to be a 121 FO. I agree that something could change with that.

Having to pay back the GIA loan on a 1st year FO's salary........which problem is creating which here??

 

[BrokeAssPilot]

F!!K all you gulfstream punks!!

I would love to have an airshow with you all trying to fly an airplane for real. I would bet your little paid for the job right seat in an RJ would go up in smoke if you tried to fly a one.

Bet you your job you can not get in an old school Champ or Cub (if you even know what that is) an get it off the ground and back safley without killing your stupid ass!!!

You would ask somebody what the "Systems" or "V-speeds" are because you are all a bunch of little panty waste robots!!

Give 'em Hell to had to earn a job!!!

 

[NDPILOT]

If it makes you feel better, i would probably kill my "stupid ass" in a champ or a cub also.

 

[acaTerry]

As a side note... If Jet Blue, Continental, NorthWest, or Delta tomorrow came out and said.. Hey, if you have 3000/1000 and $30K we will give you a job in the right seat...

There is a difference here....you can make a darn nice living at these airlines. To pay tons o' money for a job, not for training, for a regional that pays so low is not a good gamble. It just keeps others from raising the bar.

 

[dondk]

Originally posted by acaTerry

There is a difference here....you can make a darn nice living at these airlines. To pay tons o' money for a job, not for training, for a regional that pays so low is not a good gamble. It just keeps others from raising the bar.

Yes and no... if your in a postion as a CFI or even unemployed, a regional job which is steady work is better than what they may have.

I am not for PFT, but it is a circle that I do not see being broken anytime soon.

C'mon.. we all know at least one dude who works somewhere for peanuts. Sleeps in the hangar, on call 24/7 and makes LESS than a regional pilot. This GIA thing is actually a step up, albeit not much, but it is still a step.

Keeping the bar low is those regional's taking concessions or signing contracts with little to no improvement. That is for another thread though...

 

[DTWFO]

The P-F-T complainers always seem to hijack any thread they can and turn it into a bitch fest. However, it always seems to revolve around GIA.....what about the other similar programs like Flight Safety's with ASA. You paid 30,000 dollars and flew a seneca around for a couple hundred hours and were GUARENTEED a job as an FO at ASA. Of course that ended when they stopped hiring after 9/11, but for some reason no one ever mentions these programs. Also the Mesa training academy out of Farmington NM had a similar deal with America West Express and the 1900. My point is why do the haters always focus on GIA.....maybe some of them have personal issues with GIA...who knows. But the fact is there are crappy pilots and great pilots from all different backgrounds at all different airlines and the crappy ones aren't all from P-F-T places. We are living/working in a new industry and times now post 9/11 and the rules have changed. So GET OVER IT and move on with your life. Those that P-F-T have to live with it so I don't see why you all make it your lifes mission to complain at every opportunity you get about P-F-T?????

 

[Riddle momma]

I agree

I totally agree with DTWFO. Life is a b!tch sometimes and we just gotta smile and take it.

Sure it's cheap for those of us sitting in a 172 stall after stall for 6 hours a day to watch some little rich kid pay for an FO slot at a regional. But if I have learned anything in my short little 23 years at life is that things have a way of coming back at you.

There are a lot aces out there that were just meant to be birds you know? I mean flying just comes natural to them and they learn really quick. These kids don't deserve to be judged just because their parents were able to afford the FO seat for them. They are lucky, and if they are descent beings, they will thank their lucky stars each and every night before they go to bed.

BUT... there are the pilots that are completely arrogant and set the stereotypes. Little rich brats that are more of a hazard at 600 hours than they were at 10! It is them that we can bash on.

NOT ON ALL THE PFT!!!

Hopefully they will scare themselves to death and lighten up a little on the Mavrick thing... Or...their cockiness will one day get them in trouble.

I've been paying my dues for almost 2 years, and I admit, I get jealous of those that find their way to a regional with 1000 hours, but you know what? In the end it will all equal out. Relax, and enjoy your life. There is much more than PFTers. Let it be!

 

[DoinTime]

Re: I agree

....watch some little rich kid pay for an FO slot ....just because their parents were able to afford the FO seat....Little rich brats...

I'm asuming because of your handle that you went to Riddle. Being a graduate myself I know exactly how much it costs and I still owe $65,000+. I could have went to the state university and then went to GIA and come out $40,000 cheaper. Seems like we, Riddle grads, were the little rich kids and the guys that went to GIA were the ones on a budget.

 

[Riddle momma]

TRUE, but you and I will be paying that debt for another 10 years to come. I worked two jobs in college to afford supplies and my appartment. Besides, Riddle didn't garantee an FO slot anywhere, only in you did internship were you sometimes garanteed an interview and low mins on hiring (500 and 1 or 600 and 1).

Also, I am probably being biased here, I THINK, at Riddle they don't just fly the hell out of you, but put you through 4 years of aerodynamics, performance, meteorology, safety, human factors, CRM, commuter/corporate/majors operations, blah blah blah...

I will say this though, we had plenty of kids that were just in love with the idea of "being a pilot", and all they did was waste the instructor's time and aircraft time. Honestly the drop out rate there was fennomenal. People there weren't shy about telling someone they weren't mean to be pilots. There are those that escape the system though. The ones that give the rest of the hardworking "brats" a bad name.

But then Again, maybe ERAU and UND and OU and WM were all a disguise of PFT. They sure aren't anymore though. That brand name on the diploma means nothing anymore.

 

[DoinTime]

TRUE, but you and I will be paying that debt for another 10 years to come. I worked two jobs in college to afford supplies and my appartment. Besides, Riddle didn't garantee an FO slot anywhere, only in you did internship were you sometimes garanteed an interview and low mins on hiring (500 and 1 or 600 and 1).

I guess I'm not following what your saying here. I also worked very hard through school and will be paying for my Riddle education for the next 15 years. I take great offense when people call me a 'rich kid that went to Riddle.' I know some of our GIA guys that also worked very hard through college and will be paying loans for years to come so I'm failing to see why calling them 'rich kids' is any more justified than calling you or I 'rich kids.' There are people that take both paths that have their parents paying the way. It is no more likely that these people will end up at Riddle then as they will at GIA.

If you look at it from an outsiders point of view we were the ones that got screwed. We paid twice as much, got half the experience, and they didn't even get us a job when we were done. Go figure.

 

[Riddle momma]

I know some of our GIA guys that also worked very hard through college and will be paying loans for years to come so I'm failing to see why calling them 'rich kids' is any more justified than calling you or I 'rich kids.'

Hmmmm.... good point. I stand corrected I guess.

And I do totally agree that there are many GIA or whoever PFT out there who are probably better pilots than me (I can be a little cocky right?). Those people are the ones that I am saying for people NOT to pick on. They deserved it you know?

I think that's what my point was originally. Not to generalize all the PFTers because there are plenty that can handle themselves well enough to be worthy of an FO slot.

 

[sf3boy]

PFT is PFT. The airline gets the quality of pilot that IT pays for.

 

[aewanabe]

You dumbass GIA apologists are missing the point. P-F-T is bad enough (Colgan, for example, and just about every regional during the mid-nineties). When you go to Gulfstream and pay for your 250 hours, you are paying the airline for the privilege of filling a seat that must be filled by law. That is even worse than PFT. You have whored yourself out and instead of the airline hiring someone, and paying them for the work performed and the revenue generated, they're taking your money instead. You are nothing more than a passenger that has paid quite a bit extra to sit in the front seat, and in the process you are making sure that there is one less PROFESSIONAL pilot position in the marketplace. At least after Colgan rapes you for the 18k they pay you and let you stick around.