Pilots who bust TFR

[johnpeace]

Does anyone know firsthand what the consequences are for a pilot who inadvertantly busts a presidential TFR?

Didn't happen to me, I just know this guy who keeps insisting that those pilots lose their certificates permanently and that sounds kind of harsh for me and I just wonder if he's right.

 

[pilotman2105]

Just got back from a safety seminar that featured a FSS specialist. He briefly touched on the subject. To paraphrase, it depends on what the TFR is setup for. If it is a Presidential TFR, you can expect to loose all certificates and start from scratch. If it is just a sporting event or something "less severe" probably a suspension. There is a good deal of flexibility.

However, the TSA can now blacklist you, and that can cause problems down the road. Reference 14 CFR 61.18 for more information about that.

 

[Illini Pilot]

if its a smaller 3 mi/3000 agl you might only get a stern talking to from the controlling agency, this happened to several students i have known about

 

[350DRIVER]

If it is a Presidential TFR, you can expect to loose all certificates and start from scratch.

This seems rather excessive and not along the lines of normal procedures. I would assume that any decent aviation attorney could negotiate a lighter less harsh punishment. This probably depends on more variables than one and the exact causes and circumstances regarding the violation would come into play. I would be very interested in hearing from the any inspector in the "know" who frequents this board. I may be completely wrong but doesn't the pilot appear before the "fun group" in DC with attorney at his side before the FAA is able to just yank all certificates.

I may be wrong. . .

just my $.02

3 5 0

 

[Satan]

Does anyone know firsthand what the consequences are for a pilot who inadvertantly busts a presidential TFR?

don't ever get close to a bush, a minute of passion could cost you a lifetime of flying

 

[wingnutt]

350 Driver is right.

i personally know 2 people who busted the bush TFR and are still flying today. they were both intercepted by military jets and forced to land in Waco. upon landing they were arrested and their aircraft were literally seized.

long story short...they both got attorneys and negotiated their punishment.

they both were suspended for ~30 days and during the course of that suspension had to do a flight with the FAA. exactly what the circumstances of that flight were, i never did ask.

 

[Jmmccutc]

When Bush was in CLE about a month and a half back, a fella took off out of an airport well within the TFR, he flew about 20 mi to a nearby field...while enroute he was greated by two friendly USAF representatives, and instructed to land...afterward, he got a meet and greet with several local lawenforcement, FBI, and SS agents...

Never did hear what came of it....Bankaccount=0$ if you know anything could you follow up and let me know what happened to that guy?

 

[satpak77]

When flying thru central texas, just file freakin IFR

If VFR, AVOID BIG TIME the Crawford area

VFR Dallas to Austin becomes Dallas-Mexia-SAT (or similar).......365 days/year, 24 hours a day.

If I owned a Cherokee and was just a PPL guy, THAT is my new route, period, end of story, no discussion. I would also be on flight following and be up at 7000 to 10,000 and monitor 121.5 on #2 Comm

The freakin P-49 expanded area can pop open any minute, merely by Secret Service request to FAA, guys are flying thru the area when NOTAMS/etc say its "cold" and its hot or luke-warm and about to be hot and patrols are running intercepts on them

just stay AWAY

 

[bigD]

Personally, I think satpak is being a little too dramatic. You can fly through the extended portion of the Crawford TFR if you're on a VFR flight plan and squawking a discrete xponder code (ie on flight following).

I mean, in my case I agree with him - I just file IFR anyway, but there's no reason for a VFR pilot to add a ton of time and headache to their trip when there's a procedure set up specifically allowing them to penetrate the airspace.

 

[satpak77]

Tell you what

You can go ahead and navigate thru and hope the area is not going hot or the NOTAMS are all perfectly up to date

meanwhile, I will be 30 minutes behind you, via Mexia, with absolutely NO worries about anything

 

[bigD]

Okay.

 

[ShawnC]

So to sum it up:

If you bust a President TFR, you get intercepted, arrested, aircraft seized, followed by a 30 suspension, and a 709 ride (if you get an attorney)?

 

[wingnutt]

im not saying thats the norm, but thats exactly what happened to the two guys i know...hell, one of em is even a chief pilot now

 

[BankAccount=0$]

When Bush was in CLE about a month and a half back, a fella took off out of an airport well within the TFR, he flew about 20 mi to a nearby field...while enroute he was greated by two friendly USAF representatives, and instructed to land...afterward, he got a meet and greet with several local lawenforcement, FBI, and SS agents...

Never did hear what came of it....Bankaccount=0$ if you know anything could you follow up and let me know what happened to that guy?

Last I heard he still had his tickets and his fate was yet to be determined. That guy is sort of lucky since he has a partner on his aircraft (a columbia 300) so he isn't totally s.o.l. I was told the minimum was a 30 day suspension for a private pilot. And he really only flew like 10 miles. It's a lot of hassle to save a few bucks on fuel if you ask me moral of the story is to always talk to the briefer prior to departing an airport. I'm sure the 709 ride is not going to be much fun, and I can oly imagine the penalty for a Comm. or CFI rated pilot would be a lot more strict.....

 

[sky37d]

The guy who owns Potomac Airfield (VKX) publishes a newsletter. He talks about a guy who busted the ADIZ, got escorted to Potomac. He walked up to the guy, who owned a 'late model, nicely equipped Maule' and explained the situation to him by saying "I'll give you $5.00 for your airplane".