Pilots' Bar Tab

[Birdstrike]

I realize there are always two sides to every story but this story just continues to worsen. From Matt Drudge's column:


PILOTS' BAR TAB SHOWS THREE GALLONS OF BEER

By MALCOLM BALFOUR
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



July 23, 2002 -- MIAMI - Two grounded America West pilots drank nearly three gallons of beer before they allegedly tried to fly a jetliner earlier this month, prosecutors are charging.
Throw in one martini - and a lone Western hamburger - and that's what was on the bar tab for Christopher Hughes and Thomas Cloyd, according to prosecutors' filing.

The credit-card tab for the popular bar Mr. Moe's was opened by Hughes at 10:45 p.m. and closed nearly six hours later at 4:22 a.m.

Their pair's bill came to $122 and they left a $20 tip.

They checked into their rooms at 5:30 a.m., according to their electronic room keys, records for which were released yesterday.

Only five hours later, at around 10:30 a.m., they were in the cockpit of a Phoenix-bound plane carrying 124 passengers.

The purportedly plastered pilots were ordered to return from the runway to the gate just before takeoff after a screener reported smelling alcohol on their breath.

Hughes initially told cops it was "merely mouthwash," according to police reports.

But tests showed the two men had blood-alcohol levels more than double what's allowed for flying.

Cloyd, 44, and Hughes, 41, have pleaded not guilty to charges of operating an aircraft under the influence, but were fired almost immediately by the airline.

Their pilots' licenses have also been revoked.

The bar tab became public after a hearing yesterday in which the judge on the case pilloried the pilots for failing to show up - and for leaving for their Arizona homes without permission.

Circuit Judge Richard Maargloius warned that the pair had better show up at their next hearing, Aug. 1, "or else."

Each faces up to five years in prison if convicted.

 

[banned username 2]

According to a receipt from Mr. Moe's in Miami, Hughes bought seven 34-ounce beers, seven 16-ounce beers, a Happy Hour draft beer, one martini and a Western Burger between about 10:49 p.m. and 4:22 a.m. The receipt is part of the court record in the arraignment of Hughes, 41, and pilot Thomas Porter Cloyd, 44.

MORONS!!!

Here is the actual image of the receipt and credit card ticket....

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/pilottab1.html

 

[bigD]

Mmmmm...a Western Burger. That's the one thing I miss from California - Carl's Jr.

Sorry, I haven't had lunch yet.

I guess I shouldn't make light of this, but it's so rediculously stupid, I can't help but laugh.

 

[Av8tor]

Always pay Cash $$$$$$

 

[skypine69]

While trying to give these guys the benefit of the doubt, how do we know that they drank all the beer and not some hottie they were trying to score with that nite?

 

[flywithruss]

Look at the writing ...

One needs no further evidence than the handwriting on the receipt to see how bad off these guys were ... it is darn near impossible to make out the numbers he tried to write!

My advice is to develop a "personal policy" regarding alcohol use (regardless of company policy or FAA regs) and stick to it. Personally, I will not fly for twelve hours after any drinking, and if I have more than two drinks, that automatically becomes 24 hours. On layovers, I will not drink unless the layover is 18 hours or more, and I will only have one drink at a sitting. My CP and I also have an agreement that when we're out together on a trip, only one of us will drink on any given day ... leaving the other fully able to drive the rental car and and exercise a little judgment where necessary!

I've found this policy to be very workable for me; anybody who likes it may feel free to use it, and even claim it as their own!

It's just too bad that the 99% of us that do it right have to defend our entire industry against the 1% that go on a drinking binge, fly over the White House, etc. Never forget the media in this country will do ANYTHING for a story, and they just love making everything sound much worse than it really is.

Fly safe!!

R

 

[CaptBuzzard]

These guys drank a hell of a lot. 14 beers and seven of them 32oz, plus whoever had the martini. These guys can put them down which is a problem. If these guys can six hours after leaving the bar be even somewhat coherent after putting those beers down, they are textbook alcoholics. Then they plead not guilty. They are in denial as well. They got what they deserved.

 

[jetexas]

Hey at least they were drinking Sierra Nevada. That's pretty decent beer/ale. If they were drinking Old Milwaukee or Pearl, then they would have never been able to get out of bed, however.
Seems like they probably had a good ole time, at least until later that day! Never hesitate to bang in sick!!

 

[banned username 2]

Hey at least they were drinking Sierra Nevada. That's pretty decent beer/ale. If they were drinking Old Milwaukee or Pearl, then they would have never been able to get out of bed, however.

I bet they are drinking Old Milwaukee now! Unemployment doesn't pay much!!!

IDIOTS!!! I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for these losers!

 

[Boeingman]

I bet they are drinking Old Milwaukee now! Unemployment doesn't pay much!!!

IDIOTS!!! I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for these losers!

I have less then zero. I hope they hang for the blackeye they caused our profession.

I have always been disgusted about the NWA guy getting his job back. Hopefully, the judicial system will set a better example out of these two.

Their days of taking showers unmolested will soon end. Good.

 

[TWA69]

I can't believe the FO paid!

 

[V-1]

Nice to see how easy it is for your credit card number to be posted on the internet for all to see. Luckily, it was processed by one of the newer machines that X's out all but the last four digits.

Not that I really care what happens to this particular cardholder's account. Just something to think about next time you eat in a restaurant and notice your entire card number/expiration date plastered on the receipt.

I make a habit of scribbling over the numbers if I see them. Call me paranoid.

 

[rumpletumbler]

That's 19.8 12 ounce beers for the 34 ouncers. For the folks who have never had a beer a can of beer/coke etc. the can will typically hold 12 ounces. The seven 16 ounce beers equate to 9.3 12 ounce beers. Thats 29.1 12 ounce beers or a case plus 5.1 beers. This of course is without the martini or happy hour beer. Gee Thomas you don't think anyone will smell it on us do ya?

RT

 

[banned username 2]

Their days of taking showers unmolested will soon end. Good!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I LOVE IT! I hope they get some greasy 350 lb. cell mate named Bubba who's first greeting will be "Do you wanna be the husband or the wife?"

These guys will become known as "The Tossed Salad Man!" (anyone who has heard Chris Rock knows exactly what I mean!)

 

[jetexas]

I still can't believe that the security screener noticed they were drunk because they were arguing over having to leave their coffee behind. I wonder if the Captain made the FO pay for the coffee as well??

 

[bigD]

Tossed Salad Man! ROFL!!!!

That was such a great bit.

 

[Boeingman]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I LOVE IT! I hope they get some greasy 350 lb. cell mate named Bubba who's first greeting will be "Do you wanna be the husband or the wife?"

These guys will become known as "The Tossed Salad Man!" (anyone who has heard Chris Rock knows exactly what I mean!)

LOL, however, I think their days of being the "husband" are over.

The things we take for granted, like dropping bars of soap in the shower.

 

[ILS JNKY]

boozing

ALL THAT GOOD MONEY DID THEM IN, THE EVIL DOLLAR STRIKES AGAIN,
JUST GOES TO PROVE ONE THING THE MORE MONEY YOU HAVE THE MORE PARTYING YOU GET TO DO AT A HIGHER LEVEL.


ONE THING FOR SHURE THEY BE HEARING A LOT OF BENED OVER JR.

I FEEL A HEALING COMMING ON,,,,,,,,,,, A LEAP OF FAITH

 

[bobbysamd]

Plastered Pilots

I realize there are always two sides to every story but this story just continues to worsen. From Matt Drudge's column . . . They checked into their rooms at 5:30 a.m., according to their electronic room keys, records for which were released yesterday.

Only five hours later, at around 10:30 a.m., they were in the cockpit of a Phoenix-bound plane carrying 124 passengers.

(emphasis added)

I'm surprised no one's commented on this part of the story. That their electronic room keys could determine their times in and times out. Boy, talking about prima facie evidence!!

I second the comment above about the NWA pilot who got drunk, did his time, and got reinstated. That is disgusting. You have to be a virtual saint to get hired. Get hired, and forget the sainthood. That is a double standard that is sooooooo unfair. If they want you to be a saint at hire, nothing less than that should be permitted during your employment.

 

[bart]

Certainly not defending the behavior, but were they buying beers for someone else? Just maybe? I wouldn't have been able to get my key in my hotel room door after a binge like that...

 

[Ty Webb]

Alright, Ladies, I think it's time that someone bring this ridiculous string back to reality.

What those guys allegedly did was bizarre. It gave the whole industry another black eye at a time that we scarcely needed it . . . but some of you need to get down off of that soapbox before you fall off it and hurt yourself.

This is still America, and everyone still gets their day in court. Until then, let's wait until the facts are in.

The guy that said that ". . . since they pleaded not guilty . . [that] they were in denial" needs to educate himself about our legal system. Prosecutors routinely file multiple charges, in the expectation that there will be some dropped as part of plea bargaining. To plead guilty to everything off the bat would be stupid.

Chances are, they will be found NOT guilty in FL, probably on a few technicalities. I'm not sure that a jury will believe that sitting in an aircraft that is being tugged fits the description of "operating" an aircraft, and usually Federal regs supercede any state laws, especially at a Federally-funded airport. The Federal charges/certificate action is another story . . . . . I would think that will stick, based on the BAC alone.

Again, I am NOT condoning any violation of the very reasonable regs regarding alcohol use, but I am suggesting that you wait until all the info is in.

PS, for the King Air pilot who considers 2 drinks to be a "wild night", man, you are an animal . . . . like to be paired with you for a month, dude (NOT!).

 

[banned username 2]

PS, for the King Air pilot who considers 2 drinks to be a "wild night", man, you are an animal . . . . like to be paired with you for a month, dude (NOT!).

I'd rather be paired with him than someone who can't control their drinking and shows up to work drunk!

These is MUCH more to life than booze!

I enjoy an occasional drink, but every time I am out on the road it doesn't have to be a party, I've long since outgrown that...

 

[AWACoff]

These guys MOST likely did not drink 3 gallons of beer. The Smoking Gun is a very accurate site. It states they were drinking with "friends". I am guessing they each had about 6 or 7 12oz drinks each. Definitely getting "off the wagon" but by no means were they blowing "twice Florida's legal limit" and drinking 3 gallons of beer. Let he who has no "sin" cast the first stone. These guys did a stupid thing and are going to pay for it. Let it rest and let this incident fall out of the media spotlight.

 

[flywithruss]

Need to defend myself!

Ty ... I didn't say (or mean to say, in any case) that I thought two drinks constituted a "wild night" ... I just am VERY conservative about drinking whenever I might be flying, and especially during layovers. I'd rather be way too safe than get my name in the papers. I save my wild nights for the days off!

As for the "rush to judgment", there is no question that, whatever a jury says, these guys were monumentally STUPID! I'm going with Falcon Capt and saying that dancing with Bubba in the joint for a couple of years might just do the trick. This kind of publicity is the LAST thing we need.

Even if they bought all the booze for someone else, it shows very poor judgment to be out closing down a bar until 0430 and turning in at 0530 when you have a 1030 departure in the morning. Just my opinion ...

Fly safe, y'all!

R

 

[Ty Webb]

I'd rather be paired with him than someone who can't control their drinking and shows up to work drunk!

I'd rather not be paired with either of them . . . . someone who is an extremist one way or the other on the subject would be a pain.

While most pilots I know enjoy social drinking, no one I know would dream of violating the regs on the subject- and no one I know would tolerate it if their fellow crew member did, either.

 

[Simon Says]

Thank God we do not presume guilt before all facts are in. All of you wishing rape on these two individuals are way off base and a sickness in itself.

Ty is right on saying he would not want to fly with anyone far left or far right. Some of you all scare me with what you have to say. It takes education to understand the reasoning of our legal system and the reasoning behind it. It takes immaturity to try to belittle these guys. If they are found guilty of a crime than say what you must, but assuming they are guilty before they have a fair trial is just arrogant.

By the way wishing rape on these two pilots for the fact of "giving our profession a black eye" is ridiculous. Isn't it the point of not flying drunk is to protect the safety of the passengers and other people. It is not to protect our profession. Get your priorties right.

Now all of you that flamed me once before on this topic may now once again chime in.

 

[JayDub]

These guys MOST likely did not drink 3 gallons of beer. The Smoking Gun is a very accurate site. It states they were drinking with "friends". I am guessing they each had about 6 or 7 12oz drinks each. Definitely getting "off the wagon" but by no means were they blowing "twice Florida's legal limit" and drinking 3 gallons of beer. Let he who has no "sin" cast the first stone. These guys did a stupid thing and are going to pay for it. Let it rest and let this incident fall out of the media spotlight.

First off, I couldn't have said it better my self. Second, did anyone notice at the bottom of the receipt what was hand written? I bet it was his name and what used to be his employee number. You often will get a discount or credit at the hotel bar if you provide this. Usually we will put everything on one tab and split it up with cash, especially if we are socializing with someone who may not get this discount. What this means is the F.O. didn't necessarily pick-up the tab, he was probably the first to the bar.

Now on to the serious part of this post, it has been well publicized lately that America West has a twelve hour bottle-to-throttle rule. I also believe these guys were busted at @ 10:30 a.m. Look at the time the account was opened. When they put that first beer to their lips, they were in violation period dot, end of sentence. Twelve hours is twelve hours. We have got to get the word out that not one minute can be trivialized. If your policy is twelve hours, so be it and live up to it. Let alone flying after not quite six hours. Let's learn our lessons from this and move on.

 

[publisher]

video

Ah! Let's go to the video tape.

What we have is

Bar tab in detail
Room Key information
Video Tape from the bar.

 

[bigD]

Making jokes about prison rape and actually wishing it upon these guys are two very different things. Chris Rock's tossed salad bit is one of his most quoted segments, and people joke about it all the time. Doesn't mean they actually wish it on anyone. And personally, these guys brought the jokes on themselves. I don't have one ounce of pity for them.

Yes, they gave the profession a black eye. But worse, they showed a complete lack of respect for the responsibility they have to the people that ride in the back of their airplane. THAT is was pisses me off about this.

 

[flywithruss]

BigD ...

AMEN brother! You hit the nail on the head. People entrust us with their lives, and this was a flagrant abrogation of that trust. That is really what hurts here.

Also agreed that, while I've no sympathy for these clowns, the prison rape is a JOKE.

R