Pilots as workmen?

[WrightAvia]

From workmen to execs: Pilots not warm to idea

Amrita Dhar, Mamata Singh in New Delhi | October 25, 2003 11:54 IST


Even as the labour ministry gave an in-principle approval to the civil aviation ministry's proposal to classify pilots as executives instead of workmen, the pilots' unions said they would respond strongly to the move.

Labour Minister Sahib Singh Verma's approval to the proposal to take out pilots from the purview of the Industrial Disputes Act, 1947 means that they will be re-classified under the officer and manager category rather than as workmen. This implies pilots cannot form unions or go on strikes.

Reacting to the issue, the Indian Commercial Pilots' Association, the pilots' union of Indian Airlines, said the civil aviation ministry's proposal was unjustified. ICPA president Captain VK Bhalla said: "We condemn the move and will protest against it. This is just a ploy to put the blame for the losses of the government-owned airlines on us."

He added that unlike private carriers the pilots of the two national airlines had done extra duty during the Gulf wars, the Kargil war and the Bhuj earthquake. Indian Airlines' pilots had undertaken extra flight hours during the SARS scare.

Under the IDA there is no wage limit for classifying any category of workers as workmen.

However, labour ministry officials said pilots did not qualify as workmen on account of the fact that their high salaries allowed them to make provisions for their own social security.

The emoluments of a junior pilot is about Rs 100,000 per month.

Sources in the civil aviation ministry said the proposal to move the pilots from the IDA had gained momentum after the Indian Pilots' Guild (the pilots' union of Air-India) refused to operate during the SARS crisis.

The agitation had been called illegal by the labour ministry and IPG had been de-recognised by Air-India. No new union has been recognised as yet.

Pointing out another dichotomy, ministry sources added that though the pilots were categorised as workmen, on flight they assume charge of a commanding officer and give orders to even executive-ranked cabin crew.

Industry experts said globally as most airlines are private enterprises the regulations about forming unions and striking work are extremely stringent. The situation is different for state-owned carriers such as Air France.

 

[FSB99]

unless i missed it in the article, i wonder what their payrate translates to in u.s. dollars. anyone a currency guru here?

 

[Timebuilder]

Make sure you're sitting down before you start thinking about the implications of outsourcing labor, as has happened in IT.

http://finance.yahoo.com/m3?a=100000&s=INR&t=USD

$2,207.02

per year. oops. Per month. (zzzz)

 

[labbats]

I can't read that article, cliff notes please.

Anytime I see color or labor spelled with a "u", I get all wound up.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

all your jobs are belong to us

 

[skyboat]

Timebuilder-

Recheck the article. That was 100,000/month, whiuch equates to $2,207/month. Better than many pilots do in this country, I might add.

 

[flywithastick]

Make sure you're sitting down before you start thinking about the implications of outsourcing labor, as has happened in IT.

http://finance.yahoo.com/m3?a=100000&s=INR&t=USD

$2,207.02

per year.

and engineering. Lots of US E&C companies are shipping their design and engineering work to overseas (Indian) shops. Good thing Algore invented the Internet (to ship information and jobs out of the country)...

 

[LAXSaabdude]

Good thing Algore invented the Internet (to ship information and jobs out of the country)...

No kidding! I feel so much more secure in my job now with our pro-labor president in office now!

LAXSaabdude

 

[mar]

Is that more partisan bickering I hear?

Yeah, well, Al Gore may or MAY NOT have invented the internet but one thing is for sure: NAFTA enjoyed bi-partisan support and thus we can blame the Republicrats for the loss of jobs.

But never mind any of that 'cause it's much more fun to just bash the Democrats.

Whatever, carry on with your silly little debate.

 

[flywithastick]

Re: Is that more partisan bickering I hear?

Yeah, well, Al Gore may or MAY NOT have invented the internet but one thing is for sure: NAFTA enjoyed bi-partisan support and thus we can blame the Republicrats for the loss of jobs.

The mass givaway of US jobs (not just NAFTA) gets fairly equal support from the 'rats and republicans.

I've always maintained that to maintain anything close to the standard of living we're accustomed to, some protection of US jobs, imports and exports is necessary. There's just absolutely no way a US professional accustomed to a $75,000/yr job can compete with someone living in India or Mexico and earning $5-10,000/yr. This is where the "world economy" and open markets might provide the US public with $45 VCR's and $19 blue jeans, but cannot support any nice jobs.

But never mind any of that 'cause it's much more fun to just bash the Democrats.

It really is fun! Especially since they seem so willing to give amnesty to all the "undocumented migrants" that Mexico and others have to offer. (Nancy Pilosi, http://www.rense.com/general43/arr.htm)

Funny how the 'rats weren't so protective of the borders when they Reno stormed Elain Gonzales uncle's house with the automatic rifles.

http://www.geocities.com/gregoryjrummo/elianlarge.jpg

Oh yea, that was in support of his father's family rights! But I didn't think they were big supporters of family rights.

 

[Timebuilder]

Thanks, skyboat.

So, at $2,207 per month a "junior pilot" who flys for Air India makes just about what a regional pilot makes now in the US. I think they fly some rather large aircraft for that paltry sum.

Let's hope that pilot jobs aren't outsourced to India.

 

[TXCAP4228]

Thanks, skyboat.

So, at $2,207 per month a "junior pilot" who flys for Air India makes just about what a regional pilot makes now in the US. I think they fly some rather large aircraft for that paltry sum.

Let's hope that pilot jobs aren't outsourced to India.

This may invite flames but it has to be said. When you consider economies of scale, $2200/month is a he!! of an income in India.

I just spent several minutes trying to find the mean individual income in India and couldn't find it, but its a lot less than that.

 

[bigD]

This may invite flames but it has to be said. When you consider economies of scale, $2200/month is a he!! of an income in India.

Well, that's kind of the problem. At least in the computer industry - US companies can outsource labor to India and pay them a third of what programmers get here, and justify it because even $30K a year is a ton of money over there. That's all well and good, but the net result is still an unemployed programmer in the U.S..

 

[flywithastick]

Well, that's kind of the problem. At least in the computer industry - US companies can outsource labor to India and pay them a third of what programmers get here, and justify it because even $30K a year is a ton of money over there. That's all well and good, but the net result is still an unemployed programmer in the U.S..

also heard the other day how phone tech support and technical (manual, instructions, etc) writing are being shipped overseas. You call that 800-HELP no, and you may be forwarded to the Phillipeans or India.

Ironic side note - these countries are beating us at providing a service in English. Whereas the public school administrators here (Ft Bend County, TX) are providing report cards for their public school children in 9 languages. Including "Island" Mandarin (as opposed to Taiwanese Mandarin - wouldn't want to offend the communist Chinese).

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

Including "Island" Mandarin (as opposed to Taiwanese Mandarin - wouldn't want to offend the communist Chinese).

I think you meant Mainland Mandarin (communist Chinese) as opposed to "Island" (Taiwanese) Mandarin

Let's try to be Egual Opportunity Offenders

 

[Timebuilder]

I think it was right the first time.

The Communists don't like to hear Taiwan mentioned as a discrete area, since they think of it as a part of their country. So, they would rather hear "Island Mandarin" being mentioned as opposed to "Taiwan Mandarin".

Isn't a fear of being offensive to the Communist Chinese an example of the PC movement being off the chain?

 

[flywithastick]

Isn't a fear of being offensive to the Communist Chinese an example of the PC movement being off the chain?

just an example of how they're idiots, IMO.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

So, they would rather hear "Island Mandarin" being mentioned as opposes to "Taiwan Mandarin".

I see, that makes sense

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Why would they have to specifify that the report card is in "island" mandrin anyway? All Chinese writting is the same, no matter what dialect you speak.

 

[mar]

It's like this...

I guess it's kind of like the guy a few posts back that got all wound up when 'color' and 'labor' are spelled with a 'u'.

You know, it's still English, but godamit it's not *MY* English.

And while we're at it: If you don't look like me, work like me and have sex like me then you should just keep your trap shut 'cause I ain't got no use for you.

So what were we talking about? Oh yeah, cheap labor.

Wait a minute! I just found a use for you.