Pilotless Cockpit?

[ackattacker]

I would like to see ATC instructions come into the plane via an email like system. The plane alerts the crew to an instruction from ATC and makes the changes through the flight computer and all the crew has to do is give a one word verification to the computer to accept the change. Even emergencies could be handled by the computer. It is almost that way now.

There is such a system in place... jumpseating across the pacific, noticed that 100 mile out the pilots did an HF radio check (for backup purposes only), took of their earpieces, and from then on all communications were through the FMS. Punch in "request FL350" and the FMS comes back with "350 approved, report reaching". Then the FMS automatically sends the report at 350... this system is already in place. I believe it's a satellite link. I've heard a similar system exists for the Atlantic, but I'm not positive.

As for a single-pilot cockpit... we MAY see that in our lifetime. But right now the level of advanced automation required for that is actually much more expensive than paying another pilot. The military is going with unmanned aerial vehicles, but they have much different reasoning than civilian flights. An unmanned military plane can be build cheaper, since it's not carrying live humans and therefore doesn't need as much redundancy. An unmanned or "one-manned" airliner needs more redundancy, not less.

But the technology certainly does exist. A little birdy told me that a B-2 (for example) can be brought down without crew intervention. The technology is expensive, but worth it to save a two billion dollar aircraft. If you put that technology on a Boeing, I suppose it would be safe to fly it single-pilot.

 

[KigAir]

I wounder how a computer would have handled the JetBlue flight at LAX?

 

[Skyline]

Lowlypropcapt

Lowlypropcapt,

I don't know where you have been lately, but these wonder kids who start with a regional with only a few hundred hours mostly can't fly basic attitude instrument. I worked for a few airlines and the younger ones were great at the automation but take away the flight directer and you were a few minutes away from crashing. This current generation is bypassing all of the jobs where they would have gotten a baseline of hardball instrument skills. Management doesnt care. They want you using the automation, in fact it was required at one of the companies I worked for. I went to a group interview a few years back where 10 of us worked our way through three simulators. These guys were all regional captains on dash 8's and RJ's and by the end only three of us passed. Most of the rest crashed. I was in the sim with a dash 8 captain and an RJ guy. The RJ guy was totally lost and crashed a few miles short of the runway on a simple ILS. And that is why I say that even today hand flying an ILS is an emergency procedure at most airlines.

Skyline

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Lowlypropcapt,

I don't know where you have been lately, but these wonder kids who start with a regional with only a few hundred hours mostly can't fly basic attitude instrument. I worked for a few airlines and the younger ones were great at the automation but take away the flight directer and you were a few minutes away from crashing. This current generation is bypassing all of the jobs where they would have gotten a baseline of hardball instrument skills. Management doesnt care. They want you using the automation, in fact it was required at one of the companies I worked for. I went to a group interview a few years back where 10 of us worked our way through three simulators. These guys were all regional captains on dash 8's and RJ's and by the end only three of us passed. Most of the rest crashed. I was in the sim with a dash 8 captain and an RJ guy. The RJ guy was totally lost and crashed a few miles short of the runway on a simple ILS. And that is why I say that even today hand flying an ILS is an emergency procedure at most airlines.

Skyline

We agree on one thing... The instrument skills of the folks in the entry level regional jobs is, by and large, atrocious. I will say however that many of the UND, Perdue and Riddle "Wunderkinder" that I have flown with have caught on rather fast, but it is a very steep learning curve. In the interest if full disclosure, I too am one of them, being an ERAU grad. However, If the what I am seeing on the line is any judge at all there are some serious omissions in all of the collegiate flight programs. I feel I was better prepared, although I did a couple thousand hours of instructing and other flying before anyone let me near an airliner. Even then, it ate my lunch for a while.

I guess I am old fashioned, but the death of basic stick and rudder skills, along with good old common sense is going to get someone killed. Unfortunately I think it will be sooner rather than later. I hope I am wrong.

 

[Gobi Gred]

I think it will still be awhile before we see single pilot crews on airliners. I'll start thinking it's closer to reality when I can take a nap, read etc. with a fed in the jumpseat while the other guy flies. I remember being told in college 10 years ago that NDBs would be completely gone soon and that VORs would be gone by the turn of the century. Funny, I just did an approach last week that (gasp) said ADF required. As for pilotless airliners, I don't see it happening in my lifetime. Somebody has to be there to pull and reset breakers when the computer locks up.

 

[Skyline]

LowlyPropCapt

LowlyPropCapt,

Well with all glass cockpits and minimal footprint training at the bigger airlines most of that stuff wont matter. If you loose all electrical and something happens that is outside of the checklists and manual then you are probably considered an expendable loss anyway. Try going to an interview prep company and flying a sim without moving map, GPS or a flight director and you might be in for a surprise. Hardball skills dull fast even with guys who fly IFR everyday in a modern automated cockpit.

The only serious emissions I think are the lack of single pilot IFR experience in a serious weather environment. My peers and I had to suffer years in piston twins over the cascades without most of the radios operating and few icing defences. I believe it takes a few years of that to truly become one with hardball attitude instrument flying. Automation creates a false sense of security. I don't know who you fly for but even in training a true steam gauge approach is rarely done anymore. All of the focus is on maximum utilization of the automation.

Skyline

 

[QueensPilot]

I read, about a year ago, (and this was in an article in either Plane and Pilot, or Private Pilot), an article where the author stated that it was rumored that Boeing was working on a single-pilot airliner as a successor to the 7E7. The author also stated that, interestingly enough, an Airbus spokeswoman had gone on the record and said that there would always be 2 pilots on their airplanes.

 

[ePilot22]

Goodbye NDB!

I remember being told in college 10 years ago that NDBs would be completely gone soon and that VORs would be gone by the turn of the century.

The last Jepp IAP revision I did, most were NDB approaches that were eliminated. FNL HAD a NDB Rwy 33 that is no longer. That's where I learned to fly with an ADF. APA is the only airport in range (less than X-counrty distance) where I can still go to shoot NDB appraoches. The real problem is that our rental aircraft have inop. ADFs and they won't be fixed anytime soon.

I was talking to an old pilot, he remembers when radio range was the standard for navigation and the NDB was cutting edge. He flew a Cirrus SR-22 the other day and was speechless about the glass panel.

The day will come when I sit at a flight school/club and tell some young kid about glass panels being cutting edge. He'll laugh and think I'm old.

I like the NDB!!!

 

[Traderd]

Does anyone ever think that the cockpit may become totally pilotless? If so how many years until that happens?

Any thoughts, opinions..........or facts on this idea.

I posted this link somewhere else. Lots of interesting ideas from some very bright individuals.

http://www.northropgrumman.com/unmanned/

If, or when it happens, my guess is the military will lead the way with cargo first, then reduced crews for pax then total uav pax. Followed in short order by civilian cargo then reduced crew and then maybe uav with pax.

The wild card in the speed of deployment might lie in markets other than here in the US. Japan first maybe?

 

[KigAir]

If, or when it happens, my guess is the military will lead the way with cargo first, then reduced crews for pax then total uav pax.

Does the military still use navigators?

 

[Singlecoil]

Once and for all: no one is going to get on an airplane with no pilots, and transport category aircraft will never be certified single pilot because of kidney stones and other physical ailments which can arise suddenly and completely debilitate the lone pilot. Never going to happen.

 

[Skyline]

Never Say Never

10 years ago I am sure that UAV's were considered James Bond nonsence. Now the Airforce is considering replacing half of their fighters with the latest one from Boeing.

I think we will have people up front for a while yet but perhaps they will just sit there and monitor systems throughout the entire flight and never touch the controls. We are mostly there now. We have the technology to remove the middlemen. ATC could send instructions direct to the plane. Taxing could be handled from the tower. No more pilot induced confusion. Pilots will only be taught the basics of aircraft systems and will have only a limited range of pilot training. Perhaps they could be mechanics or something.

Skyline

 

[Skyline]

Never Say Never

10 years ago I am sure that UAV's were considered James Bond nonsense. Now the Air force is considering replacing half of their fighters with the latest one from Boeing.

I think we will have people up front for a while yet but perhaps they will just sit there and monitor systems throughout the entire flight and never touch the controls. We are mostly there now. We have the technology to remove the middlemen. ATC could send instructions direct to the plane. Taxing could be handled from the tower. No more pilot induced confusion. Pilots will only be taught the basics of aircraft systems and will have only a limited range of pilot training. Perhaps they could be mechanics or something.

Skyline

 

[FN FAL]

Once and for all: no one is going to get on an airplane with no pilots, and transport category aircraft will never be certified single pilot because of kidney stones and other physical ailments which can arise suddenly and completely debilitate the lone pilot. Never going to happen.

The debilitativeness of the pilot will not hinder the flight. As soon as the pilot's telemetry indicates that he/she is unable to oversee the the automated system, the automated system will just make calls to itself:

"Speed 160, flaps 10!"

"It's in there dude!"

"Hal, don't call me dude!"

"O.K. dude."

"Speed 140, flaps 20, heading 130, Approach Arm!"

"Dude, it's done!"

"I told you to quit calling me "dude"!"

 

[pilotmiketx]

Anyone who's ever flown a highly automated airplane can attest to the fact that two pilots are needed. One needs to make sure "it" doesn't do anything goofy while the other one is troubleshooting the last time it did something goofy. The way I see it, every new software revision is job security.

As for the airlines, two pilots increases the odds that one will be sober.