pilot who also is suing the TSA on there enhanced pat downs

[DAS at 10/250]

Sorry gret, CA1900 come out batting a 1000 on this one.

 

[JetProp]

Maybe if you could ask the pilots/flight crews that died in 9-11 they would say please go through the body scan and extra security. It's part of the job thank Osama for that.

911 hijackers used box cutters, which were legal to bring on a plane-pre 911.

They also exploited the FAA's "common strategy".

Xrays and molestations would have done nothing to stop them under the rules of the day.

 

[rsm]

But the games have changed and so have the rules. It's harder for them to get other things on know. Play by the rules they are bthere to protect us and the flying public. If something were to happen they would be the 1st to be blamed. They are there to protect us. With that said there are a few bad ones who go too far and they will pay for that.

 

[doh]

rsm, you are right about the game and rules! We are now playing the same game as Israel. Since they have the most secure aviation system in the world, we should use the same rules. I'm more than willing to be profiled. Full disclosure, it has already happened. It happens to frac pilots all the time before we fly politicians. The point here being, we don't need to punish the innocent, we need to use the Israeli method to stop the guilty!

 

[rigger]

rsm, you are right about the game and rules! We are now playing the same game as Israel. Since they have the most secure aviation system in the world, we should use the same rules. I'm more than willing to be profiled. Full disclosure, it has already happened. It happens to frac pilots all the time before we fly politicians. The point here being, we don't need to punish the innocent, we need to use the Israeli method to stop the guilty!

EVERYONE seems to miss the point....These are our 4th amendment rightS we are speaking about! They were and are not given to us by the government and so the government cannot just decide because of security to take them away! YOU HAVE TO GIVE THEM UP YOURSELF! they cannot force you to do either procedure, and they also cannot force you to pay a fine....(this is why they havent tried yet) it is not relevant to the conversation if it for security or not. PERIOD END OF DISCUSSION.....YOU FOLKS THAT LIKE IT TO BE SAFE CAN GIVE UP YOUR RIGHT....ALL THE REST OF US DO NOT WANT TO AND CANNOT BE MADE EXCEPT BY A JUDGE WITH A WARRANT WITH PROBABLE CAUSE!

FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THIS MEANS: 4TH AMENDMENT:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

PLEASE WAKE THE HELL UP AMERICANS THIS IS STILL AMERICA AND OUR RIGHTS ARE NOT THE GOVT'S TO GIVE OR TAKE THEY ARE OURS....PLEASE READ THE DAMN DECLARATION AND THE BILL OF RIGHTS AND LIVE BY THEM!

SECURITY IS SECOND TO ANY OF THESE RIGHTS! and before you liberal asses blow off about having a right to be secure IT'S NOT THERE....SORRY NO RIGHT TO SECURITY NO MATTER THE COST IF THERE WERE THAN I AM WITH YOU BUT YOU DONT have a right to trample on the rights given ALL WHO ARE BORN OR ARE MADE LEGAL CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY!..... GOD SOME OF YOU ALL ARE PITIFUL EXCUSES FOR AMERICANS!

 

[agrrlpilot]

Interesting thing, tho, with all the security measures put in place by the TSA, they haven't stopped anything. Even the wannabe terrorists were stopped by everyone else except the TSA: flight attendants, passengers, Government intelligence, but not a single incident so far of stopping an underwear bomb, a shoe bomb, a liquid bomb etc, can be attributed to the TSA.

As far as flight crews are concerned, we go through background checks with a thoroughness exceeded only by the National Enquirer during an election year, and yet even the airport janitors, most of whom have questionable citizenship status, slide through with barely so much as a wave. I've been at airports where the employee parking lot is secured by a wooden bar (no gate guard; just an electronic card) and opens to the airport tarmac where employees walk to work, bypassing all security. Yes, this was post 9/11.

 

[gret]

EVERYONE seems to miss the point....These are our 4th amendment rightS we are speaking about! They were and are not given to us by the government and so the government cannot just decide because of security to take them away! YOU HAVE TO GIVE THEM UP YOURSELF! they cannot force you to do either procedure, and they also cannot force you to pay a fine....(this is why they havent tried yet) it is not relevant to the conversation if it for security or not. PERIOD END OF DISCUSSION.....YOU FOLKS THAT LIKE IT TO BE SAFE CAN GIVE UP YOUR RIGHT....ALL THE REST OF US DO NOT WANT TO AND CANNOT BE MADE EXCEPT BY A JUDGE WITH A WARRANT WITH PROBABLE CAUSE!

FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THIS MEANS: 4TH AMENDMENT:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

PLEASE WAKE THE HELL UP AMERICANS THIS IS STILL AMERICA AND OUR RIGHTS ARE NOT THE GOVT'S TO GIVE OR TAKE THEY ARE OURS....PLEASE READ THE DAMN DECLARATION AND THE BILL OF RIGHTS AND LIVE BY THEM!

SECURITY IS SECOND TO ANY OF THESE RIGHTS! and before you liberal asses blow off about having a right to be secure IT'S NOT THERE....SORRY NO RIGHT TO SECURITY NO MATTER THE COST IF THERE WERE THAN I AM WITH YOU BUT YOU DONT have a right to trample on the rights given ALL WHO ARE BORN OR ARE MADE LEGAL CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY!..... GOD SOME OF YOU ALL ARE PITIFUL EXCUSES FOR AMERICANS!

Bite my butt! Nobody has missed the point.

Nothing in the code says you have a right to fly in an airplane. It is your choice to follow the rules, or else you don't fly. Your rights don't give you the right to allow some other long haired hippie to blow us out of the sky because they bypassed security.

 

[glasspilot]

I love how both Gret and Rigger blame liberals for both sides of the argument.

Gret: 4th amendmant gives me protection from unreasonable search and seizure. Screw you liberals who think you have a right to security! You don't!!

Rigger: you have no right to an airplane ride! It's called security and you hippy liberals need to stop whinning!!

How can it be liberals fault no matter the position argued?

 

[gret]

You hurt my feelings. I'm a conservative and Republican!...except in those cases where being a liberal works better.

The fact is that there has to be a balance and lets hope technology is advanced so we don't have to be groped, but can still fly safely. This whole things is nuts and wasn't of our asking, but we have to deal with it and I'm certain we will get things worked out to everyone's satisfaction.

 

[rigger]

I love how both Gret and Rigger blame liberals for both sides of the argument.

Gret: 4th amendmant gives me protection from unreasonable search and seizure. Screw you liberals who think you have a right to security! You don't!!

Rigger: you have no right to an airplane ride! It's called security and you hippy liberals need to stop whinning!!

How can it be liberals fault no matter the position argued?

Typical guys, How come you were the same guys spouting off at the bush idiot about the terrible patriot act and how it was stealing our rights...etc (which it was) but you are OK with the 4th amendment being taken....Huh must be that BS liberal slant again since it was your guy this time....They both sucked...

Now as for the argument, Facts seem to once again suck for you 2 guys....security was not at fault for 911 NOTHING ILLEGAL BROUGHT ON AIRCRAFT! As for this fiasco going on now....YOU MISSED THE POINT!!!! (AGAIN/STILL) as I thought you did. GOVT did not give you the 4th amendment right...you were born with it so they cannot TAKE IT AWAY like they are trying (with the help from lemmings like you 2) SECURITY/WAR/THE COLOR OF YOU SKIN/THE EARTH IS HEATING UP TOO MUCH can allow the GOVT to take these right from you! ONLY YOU can GIVE IT, a judge can (within the law) or A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT CAN! But none of this has been done sooooo it CANNOT BE TAKEN AWAY for Security.....

NOW i never ever ever said I had a right to get on an airplane....I dont.....I as an American I can choose to not go through the scatter device and then if singled out choose not to go through the sexual assault....I then can be denied into the secure area that is 100% true and OK to do. What I said was the GOVT cannot force me to give up my right (4th amendment) and detain me or fine me for deciding not to have those checks done. They cant cause (as I explained) they do not have the authority to take this right from me cause they do not own or hold the keys to this right without a judges order (law based society and consitution we have here) or by my agreement.

Get over yourselves here guys....I, like you go through this BS every day it must be stopped cause this is a govt and a govt will not stop unless made to stop. Get over your R vs D mentality and read and understand the constitution hundreds of thousands of men and women died so you have these rights dont be so quick to throw them away weather you like them or not. I know youve heard it but it really is true "those willing to give up freedoms for SECURITY will have neither"......if you look in the mirror do you really really think these checks do anything to enhance security? Would they have found the underwear bomber? (NOPE) how about shoe dude (NOPE) They only pick you to have an extra screen if you opt out or set off the alarm will the terroist OPT out? (NOPE) how about set off an alarm? (NOPE) and how does feeling your daughters kooter tell them what set off the scanner? (it dont)
Follow the money guys......its not a coincidence that this crap started as people found out the health affects of scatter tech.....and they cant loose these machines cause Heading up the renewed push for those controversial, clothes-penetrating scanners at airports is former homeland security secretary Michael Chertoff. His consulting firm represents companies who make the scanners.....what a coincidence.....Security is a falicy, I saw a guy walk up to an ASA jet and talked with the bag dudes just last week in a small airport that the FBO was right next to the ramp and there was nothing seperating the 2.....happens everyday everywhere! but AMERICAN CITIZENS your wife mother grandmother are being made to feel and act like a criminal....For security...... AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE TO YOU WAKE THE HELL UP AMERICA!