Pilot shortage!!

[publisher]

Everyone

That rare case when everthing above is correct and accurate.

Technically, no shortage now or before or ahead.

What people talk about is level of experience for given job. There is not much doubt that in 2000, you did not have to have significant experience to land a pilot job with a carrier.

It is the ebb and flow of experience level but not a shortage. Did the flight schools start that, no. Did they promote it, yes.

To call these people scumbags is totally uncalled for and reflects an unprofessionalism becoming entirely too common.

Yesterday when I was talking to two recruiters, the Southwest theme came up again. We hire the person not the hours. If there is a shortage, it is in the quality of individuals with some class and a good attitude about their profession, not pilots.

 

[FLYnMONKEYS]

Re: Everyone

To call these people scumbags is totally uncalled for and reflects an unprofessionalism becoming entirely too common.

Yesterday when I was talking to two recruiters, the Southwest theme came up again. We hire the person not the hours. If there is a shortage, it is in the quality of individuals with some class and a good attitude about their profession, not pilots.

OK so now I'm unprofessional for calling a spade a spade. Any one who has spent any time in this industry knows there are plenty of unscrupulous operators, especially in training. Yes there are SCUMBAGS in aviation "Buttercup", open your eyes and don't step in the poo!

I guess my professionalism and character are good enough for that other Dallas carrier.

 

[bobbysamd]

Pilot (and experience) "shortage"

Fair comments.

I can see where school recruiters could fall into the "scumbag" category. Many promise the moon about what their school will do for you, especially regarding placement and airline interview connections. They become scumbags when they do not, cannot or fail to deliver on their promises.

This seems to be true with vocational schools generally. My paralegal school advertised a 98% placement rate. After working for three commercial flight schools, I took that with a grain of salt. I was right. The school offered me little help in finding a job after I graduated. Truth is, I found my first job on my own.

Now, if they're just advertising their schools and say their schools offer the best airline-oriented training anywhere, that's just salesmanship and hype. In that case, the buyer must beware.

During the late 80s hiring boom, experience requirements ebbed and flowed. I believe that American Eagle and/or its subsidiaries such as Wings West and Nashville Eagle were advertising 3000 total and 1000 to 2000 of multi. Then, in about 1988, they dropped those requirements to 1500 total-500 multi. Somehow, at least in my mind, that requirement has become a benchmark because so many organizations have used it. The truth is, the quality of the applicant pool drives requirements. FAPA was truthful about one thing in its airline profiles; it would write about the published requirements but would add the actual hour totals at which airlines were interviewing.

Once again, there is no pilot shortage. Just don't give up on trying unless you have to.

 

[Riddy]

Yesterday when I was talking to two recruiters, the Southwest theme came up again. We hire the person not the hours. If there is a shortage, it is in the quality of individuals with some class and a good attitude about their profession, not pilots.

So why does SWA, Jetblow, FEDX all want 1000 PIC MINIMUM in large turbine aircraft. I have over 7500 hours with over 3500 in 727's as FE, FO, and PIC, but only 800 as PIC and they don't even want to know my name. Quantity over quality. It's hard to keep a positive attitude when you aren't qualified to apply for a startup when you have 12 years of commercial experience.

 

[jaybird]

ROTFLMAO

Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Ass Off

 

[Jeff G]

Riddy,

So go get 200 more PIC and kwitcherbitchin. The upgrade here is less than a year, and we all had to have 1000 PIC before even applying. Not SIC, not FE. Quality over quantity, you might say. Even a little startup like "jetBlow" has standards, you see.

You might also want to read the website for comprehension this time. You don't need 1000 PIC in large turbine aircraft. You need 1000 hrs in large turbine aircraft, and 1000 PIC turbine. They are not the same.

BTW, most interviewees nowadays have 2000+ hrs of turbine PIC time, and a lot have more large jet experience than you. Better get cracking.

 

[bobbysamd]

ROTFLMAO

ROTFLMAO . . . I like that. Thanks.

 

[AlbieF15]

PIC = time spent 100% responsible for decisions and outcomes of same.

There is NO substitute. Why 1000 and not 400 or 2000? That I cannot say....but PIC time is the single most valuable type of time out there.

As a military guy, I was concerned about my lack of total time compared to my heavy driving brethren. What I learned was airlines seem to care more about PIC that TT, which meant that right seat time my competitors had didn't matter as much as I thought. When you stack up the PIC turbine verse PIC turbine a fighter guy like me was actually pretty close to some C141/C5 types.

Jeff G did regionals for a while as a civilian guy and upgrade to captain....and likewise got hired (as a young guy I might add). So...for what its worth....to my untrained eye it seems like working at a commuter/regional as a Capt is way preferable to some companies than time spent in right seat. I know a USAir guy who has been a right seater for 14 years. I don't fault him...since he was already at a "major" and not thinking about leaving, but if I were looking for work I'd go where I could get the PIC time the soonest. I just don't think that logbook full of FO or SO time buys you much in this market.

 

[Jeff G]

A correction to my last post. On further reflection, when I was hired, the criteria wasn't 1000 PIC turbine, it was 500 PIC or 1500 SIC. I didn't want to be inaccurate. I had about 800 PIC when I interviewed and about 1200 when I started with JB. But the point isn't that you're unworthy at 800 PIC (and I'd be a first class hypocrite if I said so), it's that it's pointless to rail against the unfairness of it all. I don't know why the cutoff is 1000 PIC and it doesn't matter. There are thousands of very experienced pilots out of work right now, so there's little to gain by splitting hairs. All you can do is get the most, best experience you can and then present yourself in the best light if you get the chance. Good luck to you, Riddy.