Pilot pay

[race#53]

Everything in the following list is proportional to today's cost except airfare and Pilot pay;

As we open the Golden Age of the Flying Clippers, we find the world in a deep economic depression. The United States has just been through what will have been, the two worst years of it. Franklin Roosevelt has just been elected president of the United States — and will remain so for an unprecedented 4 terms — and Adolph Hitler has just come to power in Germany. There are only 48 states in the Union. Alaska and Hawaii will not be added for almost 30 years. Prohibition has just been repealed. Thanks to Hollywood, New York's Empire State building will now have King Kong forever associated with it.

If you are "lucky" enough to be an airline pilot you will earn $8000.00 per year. A dentist earns $2391.00; an electrical worker, $1559.00; a public school teacher, $1227.00; a secretary, $1040.00; a steelworker, $422.87; a waitress, $520.00.

A new Pontiac coupe costs $585.00 and is powered with a gallon of gas costing only 18¢. A wool suit is $10.50. Chicken is 22¢ a pound and milk is 10¢ a quart. A six room house with a two car garage in Detroit will cost you $2800.00. If you have the time, a 60-day 11-counrty tour of Europe will cost you $495.00. Round trip airfare from New York to Chicago is $86.31 and from Chicago to Los Angeles is another $207.00.

 

[Flyby1206]

Assuming a new Pontiac now costs roughly 30k, pilots salaries should be 400k! But I bet you could still get a flight from NY to Chicago for $86.31

 

[Herman Bloom]

Not a math guy (esp. financially speaking), but I believe that the adjusted airfares would be roughly:

NY - Chicago: $4315.50

Chicago - LA: $10,350.00

Ergo, airlines then made boat-loads of money. Today's fares are literally the same as they were 60 years ago! Go figure.

 

[Fliteidol]

And Mesa still pay about $8,000 a year to a new hire!

 

[81Horse]

I do think pilots should still be paid about four times as much as dentists earn.

 

[shon7]

Lower Airfares do not necessarily mean lower pay. Case in point -- SWA.

The traditional business models are out of sync. With the unions so resistant to change there is no way to get the Legacies out of the mess they are in -- Chap 11 or otherwise.

Be prepared for Virgin America, Jet Blue and more.

 

[pilotyip]

On the other side E. Gann talked about not being able to live on his pay as an AAL co-pilot in 1939

 

[whoisthisguy?]

You guys complain too much. Where else can someone without a college degree make $100,000/yr while only working 10 days a month. It is a lot better than a cubicle I can tell you. Oh yes. Go to his seminar to hear the truth ... http://www.jet-jobs.com/ABOUT AIR INC/aboutairinc.htmlHe has truly changed my life for the better. Tank God I diddent go to kolledge -- that wood have bin a totle waste of munny.

 

[dojetdriver]

Go to anyone of the online calculators that figures out inflation or what x amount of dollars in a past year equals in todays dollars.

$8000 dollars in the mid 1930's is equal to between $110,000-$115000 in 2005 dollars.

 

[91100 100 set]

On the other side E. Gann talked about not being able to live on his pay as an AAL co-pilot in 1939

I thought the same thing. 8 grand sounds pretty sweet in 1930's money (compared to the other incomes listed), but that 8 grand is probably coming from the same type of source that says an airline captain nowadays makes $200,00+. We've all seem those numbers and know they are complete bunk.

 

[pilotyip]

NOTE: whoisthisguy is not my alter ego, but he has the big picture

 

[LarryinTN]

Everything in the following list is proportional to today's cost except airfare and Pilot pay

From the Inflation Calculator: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
I used 1935 as the starting date.

Airline pilot $8000.00 --> $110,439.43
A dentist $2391.00 --> $33,007.59
electrical worker $1559.00 --> $21,521.88
public school teacher $1227.00 --> $16,938.65
secretary $1040.00 --> $14,357.13
steelworker $422.87 --> $5,837.69
waitress $520.00 --> $7,178.56

new Pontiac coupe $585.00 --> $8,075.88
gallon of gas 18¢ --> $2.48
wool suit $10.50 --> $144.95
pound of chicken 22¢ --> $3.04
quart of milk 10¢ --> $1.38
house $2800.00 --> $38,653.80
tour of Europe $495.00 --> $6,833.44
airfare NYC-ORD-NYC $86.31 --> $1,191.50
airfare ORD-LAX-ORD $207.00 --> $2,857.62

 

[linecheck]

Its amazing to compare airfares from back then (not adjusted for inflation) to what they are today. They haven't changed!!

 

[pilotyip]

Airfares have dropped just like the price of TV's because the new airplanes are so much more productive. In 1935, a DC-2 generated 16 seats at 150 MPH or 2400 RSM per hour. A 737 generates 150 seat at 500 MPH or 75,000 RSM per hour. A 747 generates 350 seats at 525 MPH or 183,750 RSM. It is simply much cheaper to move someone today, the same as it is to build electronics. That is why prices have come down. In 1960 in cost $500 to fly across the Atlantic in a DC-6. The jet came along and the airlines charged he same price and moved 4 times as many people twice as much on each airplane and tow trips per day as opposed to one in the DC-6. What a moneymaker?

 

[pipejockey]

From the Inflation Calculator: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
I used 1935 as the starting date.

Airline pilot $8000.00 --> $110,439.43
A dentist $2391.00 --> $33,007.59
electrical worker $1559.00 --> $21,521.88
public school teacher $1227.00 --> $16,938.65
secretary $1040.00 --> $14,357.13
steelworker $422.87 --> $5,837.69
waitress $520.00 --> $7,178.56

new Pontiac coupe $585.00 --> $8,075.88
gallon of gas 18¢ --> $2.48
wool suit $10.50 --> $144.95
pound of chicken 22¢ --> $3.04
quart of milk 10¢ --> $1.38
house $2800.00 --> $38,653.80
tour of Europe $495.00 --> $6,833.44
airfare NYC-ORD-NYC $86.31 --> $1,191.50
airfare ORD-LAX-ORD $207.00 --> $2,857.62

What a shame it is that every profession listed above earns significantly more today except for the airline pilot. Keep in mind these pilots were flying maybe 15 to 30 passengers at a time? Not the average of about 170 they do today.

 

[pipejockey]

NOTE: whoisthisguy is not my alter ego, but he has the big picture

Pilotyip, why do you continue to sell your (all of our) profession so short? I don't know any pilot that doesn't average at least 18 days of work a month. Most put in about 20. Only the most senior at a major may be able to get away with maybe a 13 or 14 day work month. Most of us will never be senior at a major airline, we will be regional or cargo pukes like me!And as far as not needing a college degree...well, look at the stats of guys getting hired at the career airlines, about 96% have 4 year degrees. In addition, doesn't all the training a pilot needs to get before getting even the lowliest of jobs count as education? It may not be in a classroom learning about crap that they will never use in their profession, but it is certainly an education or training, if you will.

 

[pilotyip]

Pipejock, I am not sure what your point is. I have nothing against pilots, I have lived the pilot’s lifestyle, and I drink beer with pilots on a regular basis. I just don’t happen to think flying an airplane is a bad job, and I am still living my dream. That is what the job is about. Your 96% are not correct, using Kit's latest number JB is 85%, SWA is 93%, and AirTran was somewhere in the low 90's. But you have to look at who is applying if 96% of the pilots applying and a lesser number than 96% on 4 yr. pilots are hired then the non-degreed guy has the advantage. As stated many I have nothing against a college degree, but it has nothing to do with flying an airplane. You can make it to a career position without a degree. I have seen it happen too often.

 

[pipejockey]

I agree with you about not needing a 4 year degree to fly a plane. I was just going by the percentage of new-hires that have them. But the same can be said for any job. Do you really need a college degree? What do they do for you anyway? I believe Bill Gates does not have a degree. Even Mr. Blue himself, Mr. " we deserve to have our passengers pay more to fly us" Neelman.

I still enjoy flying but I can't keep up financially much longer. All of the opportunity in the airlines anymore are the regionals where pay is unlivable for people with grown-up responsibilities both in regards to family and financially. The regional airlines are for the kids with the Shiny Jet Syndrome like I admit I once had. And the only ones among us who will have any chance at all at the best jobs in the industry will have had to have started at a regional by their mid to late 20's in order to have the 5 to 10 thousand hours total and 3000 Part 121 PIC Jet time to get on with them. I am talking about UPS, Fed Ex, CAL, and much to my chagrin LUVless. If you can't get on with a Major by the time you are 35-40 at the latest, what's the point? An age 40 hire will be well in his 50's before ever being able to hold anything better than Junior Captain on the smallest equipment.

My point is, I just want the lower level airline jobs that most of us will be stuck at to offer a lifestyle that can be sustained by all of us with some good pay, QOL, and retirement.

 

[loverobot]

I just don’t happen to think flying an airplane is a bad job, and I am still living my dream. That is what the job is about.

NO! Stop right now! This was about pay, and pay only. A guy posts a list of salaries and consumer goods as they were in 1935 to compare to the same in todays money. Don't come crawling in here with your squisshy forms of payment like dreams, and what the job is about in some poetic sense.

 

[loverobot]

This is great stuff!

I would like to see Airline Pilot pay in graph format over the years. Throw in some charts with average days off and then we would have some idea about where we stand. Anybody know where to find historical pay scales like this??

I hear so much complaining and "it aint like it used to be" grumbling. Well, lets see it in charts and graph, in your face, nothing but the facts format.