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Pilot error once again bites Delta

Traderd

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Huh? "too much reverse thrust"?

More detail in this article:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...low-procedures

"By adding too much engine power for what is known as "reverse thrust" to help with braking, the crew caused the plane to skid to the left, the National Transportation Safety Board ruled. While other planes landing shortly before had stopped with no issues, the pilots were hampered by outdated runway condition reports and vague guidance in their manuals, the NTSB found."

"On the MD-80 series of aircraft, pilots are advised not to use too much engine power during reverse thrust because it can create swirling winds that engulf the tail, where both engines are mounted. If that happens, the tail can no longer keep the plane pointed straight."

"Use of too much reverse thrust is common, the NTSB found. In a sample of flights on the accident plane and another Delta jet that had landed just before it, crews used too much reverse thrust in all 14 cases in which runways were wet and skidding was a risk."

I don't see the the NTSB report or I'd post a link. Better to read the source, of course.
 

rettofly

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More detail in this article:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...low-procedures

"By adding too much engine power for what is known as "reverse thrust" to help with braking, the crew caused the plane to skid to the left, the National Transportation Safety Board ruled. While other planes landing shortly before had stopped with no issues, the pilots were hampered by outdated runway condition reports and vague guidance in their manuals, the NTSB found."

"On the MD-80 series of aircraft, pilots are advised not to use too much engine power during reverse thrust because it can create swirling winds that engulf the tail, where both engines are mounted. If that happens, the tail can no longer keep the plane pointed straight."

"Use of too much reverse thrust is common, the NTSB found. In a sample of flights on the accident plane and another Delta jet that had landed just before it, crews used too much reverse thrust in all 14 cases in which runways were wet and skidding was a risk."

I don't see the the NTSB report or I'd post a link. Better to read the source, of course.

Ah so. Being a lazy lout, I failed to do the homework. Thank you.

So...crews should know to go easy on the r/t on contaminated runways, ergo Pilot Error. Tough call on a 7000 ft slippery runway with a sea wall and Flushing Bay at the end.
 

Traderd

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Ah so. Being a lazy lout, I failed to do the homework. Thank you.

So...crews should know to go easy on the r/t on contaminated runways, ergo Pilot Error. Tough call on a 7000 ft slippery runway with a sea wall and Flushing Bay at the end.

True that. It didn't help the runway condition report they received wasn't current, but be that as it may, the left seat gets the glory or gets the blame.

Seems like if all 14 of the previous landings had a crew using excess thrust with the t/rs, then it might be a sign that's how crews were trained? I mean, hard to find that many different crews all making the same mistake. Could be it was not their understanding that is was a mistake.
 

rettofly

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True that. It didn't help the runway condition report they received wasn't current, but be that as it may, the left seat gets the glory or gets the blame.

Seems like if all 14 of the previous landings had a crew using excess thrust with the t/rs, then it might be a sign that's how crews were trained? I mean, hard to find that many different crews all making the same mistake. Could be it was not their understanding that is was a mistake.

Chances are....

Never got to fly the big iron, but on the Ultra we had to be no more than idle reverse or out of reverse by 60 KT. Plenty of rudder left at that point.
 

freightdogfred

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Chances are....

Never got to fly the big iron, but on the Ultra we had to be no more than idle reverse or out of reverse by 60 KT. Plenty of rudder left at that point.

I know from personal experience when the last 1000 ft is upon you you will avail yourself of all available means to stop the flyin machine from rolling further
 

rettofly

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Probably more of a FOD thing.

Absolutely a FOD preventer. Also, not that much kinetic energy left to use up at that speed. Side benefit: plenty of rudder authority for the remaining rollout.
 

FDJ2

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Seems like if all 14 of the previous landings had a crew using excess thrust with the t/rs, then it might be a sign that's how crews were trained? i mean, hard to find that many different crews all making the same mistake. Could be it was not their understanding that is was a mistake.

Bingo!
 
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