Pilot Age Limits: Deeply Wrong

[vc10]

http://enplaned.blogspot.com/2005/11/pilot-age-limits-deeply-wrong.html

From today's Air Transport World web update:

US Senate Commerce Committee yesterday approved legislation requiring FAA to repeal the Age 60 Rule in favor of permitting pilots to work until they are 65. Copilots would have to be below age 60. The bill must be passed by the entire Senate as well as the House and signed by the President before it becomes law. It was welcomed by the Southwest Airline Pilots' Assn. but criticized by the Allied Pilots Assn. representing pilots at American Airlines. FAA consistently has refused to amend the rule and it is an issue that still divides pilot groups.

Age limits of any type are deeply wrong. Instead, the FAA should establish objective medical, mental and physical requirements that all pilots, of whatever age, should be required to meet. It would be reasonable to require older pilots to be tested more frequently.

The reality is that some pilots probably ought to be ejected from the cockpit earlier than age 60, while others could probably safely fly to age 70 and beyond. So let them.

We're not supposed to discriminate on the basis of age in this country, so don't.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

.

We're not supposed to discriminate on the basis of age in this country, so don't.

That blanket statement doesn't hold water already. You have to be 16 to drive and Private Pilot, 18 to vote, 17 to see an R rated movie, 21 to drink, 23 for ATP, 25 to rent cars without extra fees, your auto insurance is based partly on age, air traffic controllers have age limits, you must be 45 to be President of the US, Seniors get all kinds of discounts at for being a certain age, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Flying Freddie]

you must be 45 to be President of the US,

Actually, Teddy Roosevelt, Kennedy and Clinton were younger than 45. I think the minimum age is 35 for President.

 

[captain caveman]

Great! Let's fly 'til we die. Us younger ones who are actually planning for an age 60 retirement from part 121 without a pension actually need a longer upgrade time and equipment upgrades.

 

[HAL]

Great! Let's fly 'til we die. Us younger ones who are actually planning for an age 60 retirement from part 121 without a pension actually need a longer upgrade time and equipment upgrades.

So it's me, me, me, me, and don't worry about what is best for the profession overall? As a lot have posted in other threads, it does not decrease your time in any seat, and most likely will extend your earnings over your career. It will only delay some hiring and upgrades for the first few years. In the long run, it is for the better.

HAL

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Great! Let's fly 'til we die. Us younger ones who are actually planning for an age 60 retirement from part 121 without a pension actually need a longer upgrade time and equipment upgrades.

Let's face the facts here. If you're with a Part 121 operator today, your company may not exist in 5-10 years or your "package" will look a lot different than it does now. Do you guys realize that even if your upgrade is delayed by a couple of years, you'll also be able to work to 65? Additionally, if you're a part of a growing airline, there is no stagnation for upgrades but for in our case a year or two. We've only had 4-5 retirements in the history of Jetblue.

The realism of all the guys on furlough is not caused by the AGE 60 rule!!! IT is caused by an industry that won't charge enough for services rendered and the ridiculous pricing by bankrupt carriers going on 3+ years of no financial dictations and goals not met and reset... Bullcrap...

This industry goes in waves. When the times are good, they're good. When it sucks, it really sucks and people want the Ageless 60 rule to remain in place for the Legacy airlines to dump off the least productive most expensive employees on the payroll.

Look at US Airways: there is no juniority. That is why their cost is still one of the highest in the industry. Even after all the cuts, the cuts are on the highest of high salaries across the board-- pilots, flight attendants, dispacthers, rampers... Then the transition. Newer airlines, like Airtran, Jetblue-- very junior folks, lower pay, no seniority to speak of. In twenty or so years, there will be a great need for pilots at these airlines as people get to their respective retirement age, and so the cycle starts again...

 

[semperfido]

We've only had 4-5 retirements in the history of Jetblue.

.

i am surprised you have had any.

 

[TAZ MAN]

Great! Let's fly 'til we die. Us younger ones who are actually planning for an age 60 retirement from part 121 without a pension actually need a longer upgrade time and equipment upgrades.

Why would I be surprised that the younger ones would have a its all about me attitude.

Once again they want it now no matter what it costs them in the future.

 

[Guppiedriver]

Oh yeah it's fair for me to wait five more years to upgrade, because I get to fly five more years. Yippee!

Thanks, but no thanks. I'll take the earlier upgrade and the earlier retirement.

 

[Superpilot92]

TAZ~~

if i was making 140k a year i would want to work as long as possible too. oh wait i probably wont ever see it so why dont you fly another 5 more years while i dont upgrade and advance in my career. dont say a thing about young guys saying its all about "me, me, me" who are the 59 year olds looking out for, "them, them, them"

 

[Guppiedriver]

Once again they want it now no matter what it costs them in the future.

What's it going to cost me in the future? Oh yeah, five years of my life.

 

[lostplnetairman]

That blanket statement doesn't hold water already. You have to be 16 to drive and Private Pilot, 18 to vote, 17 to see an R rated movie, 21 to drink, 23 for ATP, 25 to rent cars without extra fees, your auto insurance is based partly on age, air traffic controllers have age limits, you must be 45 to be President of the US, Seniors get all kinds of discounts at for being a certain age, etc. etc. etc.

Just to add some factual content...then the debate can carry on:

The Age Discrimination in Employment Act protects employees OVER the age of 40. On the federal level it's perfectly ok to set other limits for those under that age. Other than certain bonafide executives and airline pilots, no one is exempt from this. And it also protects employees over the age of 40 from a hostile work environment caused by jokes, taunting, etc about age.

HR Diva

 

[captain caveman]

Hmmm, It's all about me? Yeah me and most other current 121 pilots. The fact is I'm planning on an age 60 retirement. If my current carrier didn't exist I would get a pay raise by going corporate or into a different field. The fact is I save a large portion of my income every year even though it is low. My family and I just learn to live within the rest. I have a diversified skill set that allows me to work outside the aviation field even though I've been at a carrier from a young age. Now a few of you older pilots need the extra years because you relied on someone else to provide you with a high standard of living during retirement. I am sympathetic and I know it sucks. Just not enough to warrant the consequences for the rest of the pilot group.

 

[ferlo]

Do you guys realize that even if your upgrade is delayed by a couple of years, you'll also be able to work to 65? .

This guy sums up the entire problem with pilots. Gee I didn't realize that I "Get" to fly 5 more years. What if in the off chance that some of us have other interests in life than to go to LAX and back. Who wouldn't want 5 more years of retirement when your health is probably the best it's going to be. Until pilots, as a unified group, drop this BS about "Getting to fly", then we will be pistol whipped to eternity. This is a job. Period. I'm here for the money and benefits. Anything that does not maximize those two things can go pound sand.

 

[Jim Smyth]

Fortunately experiance in this issue will win out over the lact of wisdom. Look at who makes most of the decesions. Its guys that are mostly all over the age of 60 still working in the Senate. The age will change, it has to especially with whats going on in aviation today. The age 60 rule wasnt fair when it was rammed into place in 1959 and it isnt fair today. The younger pilots will have to get used to the fact that they too some day will be able to make the chocie to fly to 65 or retire at 60. I would be willing to wager that you wont be going anywhere when your 60 either!

 

[B6Driver]

I'll cut right to the chase, everyone senior to me should retire and I get to work as long as "I" wish. As we age, our priorities change to fit our needs and this is normal.

 

[4fanman]

I can't help but to think about the stats of airline guys dying within a few years of retiring at 60. I'm in my mid-30's and have been in this game for 7 years now and there is no way in hell that I'm going to fly up to age 60, much less 65.

At 60 you'll find me fishing or teaching grandkids how to shoot.:uzi:

Age 60, 65, or 140 rule, I just don't care.