Piedmont classes?

[SiouxHockeyFan]

Stick with PDT

To everyone who is in the PDT hiring pool, Stay with it. I was there, but left for another regional. The ground school at PDT isn't that it is harder than other regionals, but the fact they really stress you "know" the info not just memorize the numbers. The Dash systems are a little harder than a regional jets, but they are a heck of a lot more fun to fly. Stay with PDT and you will love the Dash. The Rj is "cool looking and fast", but that is about it. Good experience and good FO pay.

 

[NYCPilot]

Yeah, Ive heard that flying a TP can be a little harder than the RJ's currently out there. Power management is much easier in the jet in comparison.

 

[NCFlyer]

I've got to agree with LowlyPropCapt.

Is PDT utopia? No.
Could it be a better place to work? Yes.

But hanging all that on the training department is unfair. I can't speak for the new hire training since it has been too long ago, but for CQ if you show up prepared, (as in review limitations & profiles) you shouldn't have much trouble. It helps to fly the airplane by the book for 11 months and just fly the sim the same way. In my experience the people who seem to have the most trouble are the same people who want to fly "their way" and then can't understand why they have so much trouble in the sim during CQ.

If you show up, know the profile, then fly the profile you shouldn't have a problem.

For the new hires it can be quite a leap from single/light twin to 43,000 lb turboprop when you only have 500 hours at the time you show up. It is my understanding that the company is more than willing to help those that need a little extra help if they are putting in their whole effort. For those that are partying or "studying" at Murphy's don't expect the company to give you an extra hand. I heard recently that a new hire fell asleep while observing 2 others in the sim. BAD MOVE!

 

[Dash8]

Sorry I can't let this one go...

You must be an Allegehney guy, right?

Yes I am, but that isn't germaine to the situation, so please withhold your prejudices.

Full Disclosure: I am a native Piedmont guy who has never had a problem with either management or the training department. As a matter of fact, the contacts I have had with both have been downright professional and pleasant even in disagreement.

well, bully for you then, but just because you have had that be the 'normal' course of things, doesn't mean the same is true for everone else, and this isn't a pdt/alg thing, because i've known a number of pdt guys with the exact same complaints

So the training department guns for people? Do you have evidence of this? Are you even aware of what the pass rate in CQ is or do just listen to your buddies' stories and half baked rumors? If you are one of the Allegehney folks that is ticked off so bad, do you really think the training department is after you personally?

Get over yourself. JK and the rest of the training department doesn't spend 1 second trying to think up ways to screw you over. As a matter of fact, it is highly unlikely that they even know who you are. The world doesn't revolve around you.

Yes, they most certainly did/do have people they were 'gunning' for. I witnessed it, in person. Names were most certainly mentioned, including my own. I am not the only person to have witnessed such an event either.
Granted, this may not include the entirety of the traning department, but definately JK and some of his lackeys. I don't believe the world revolves around me, but when presented with facts and information, its hard to dispute the truth of the matter.

I fly with a number of former Allegehney folks who feel that there present state is untenable and there only option is to resist all change whatever the price. The Allegehney way was the only way, and dang it, you are going to prove it one way or another. My unsolicited advice? Get over it. The company you fly for wants you to fly the airplane thier way. Unless they are asking you to violate your contract or the FAR's or operate in an unsafe manner just do it like the book says. Basically, shut up and fly or quit.

Now, if you are a native Piedmont pilot, than whatever your issue is with the company than solve it or get over it. Or leave, that is always an option too. I believe in keeping a low profile and keeping my head down. On the rare occasion when I have had a beg to differ with the company, I handled it calmly and professionally and never came away disappointed. It is the art of telling someone to got to hell, but making them look forward to the trip.

Piedmont, like every other regional, is niether Shagri-La nor is it Dante's Inferno. It is someplace in between. I like some of the things the training department does and others I disagree with. Some people I like more than others, but that is goiing to be the case anywhere. More or less it is up to you to make it what you will. Most people who have problems here (especially in training) make there own troubles by either having a crappy attitude or flat not knowing their jobs.

There, I feel better. Stepping off the soapbox now.

well you obviously have a bone to pick with alg guys, what it is? frankly I don't care.
I'm trying to do my part to make things better here, no, alg wasn't perfect far from it, and yes pdt does do a few things a little better but on the whole, seeing both operations as they are/were, alg was better. You have to realize that we are in the particular position of being able to make a fairly full comparison between the operations and the shortcomings/promises of both.
Considering you didn't know what life at alg was like, you have no business coming down on people for expressing their opinions about the differing operations, and what can be done to improve them.
I also have been nothing but calm and professional in all my dealings with either mgmt, or trng, so being curteous doesn't solve everything unfortunately.
"Keep a low profile", thats exactly the kind of attitude that got pdt into the predicament it is in with the past ineffective or 'corrupt' union leadership that sold out the junior pilots or anyone else for their own benefit.

You obviously don't keep abreast of the situation here, in that the company does in fact ask (or coerce might be a better turn of phrase) people, to abrogate the contract, bend FAR's, or do what a person may consider 'unsafe'. On a semi-regular basis, how many times has penny told some one "just do it and grieve it"? or mechanics asked to pencilwhip a writeoff to get the plane on its way, I've had mechanics admit that to me as well. So don't tell me what the company does or doesn't do, I'm aware....
Thats not to say that mgmt doesn't sometimes 'do the right thing' for people in need, but that doesn't absolve them of their other transgressions and failings with the draconian style thats been fostered here.

The 'ostrich syndrome' is what let management run amok here and turn pdt into the culture of fear that it is today.
Do you think its just coincidence that newhires are leaving in droves, especially prior to their first cq? To go make LESS money someplace else??
I only hope that Tempe eventually turns their eye towards salisbury sees how the operation is being run as far as personnel, and enacts a corporate culture more like their own after some heads roll. I know some people at HP and if we had mgmt that took after their style, this would be a much happier place. I'm not so deluded as to think there still wouldn't be issues of some kind, you can't always please everyone, but it would have to be a far sight better than what we're living with now.

So, in sumation, don't be so quick to ridicule or dismiss anyone complaining about issues they had with people that you may have had adequate dealings with. There are definately bias' in this company (mgmt and training) towards and against various people on property, some I'm sure deservedly so, and some not.

*steps off my soap box and smashes it gallagher style*

When its all said and done, I just want to come in, do my job, and go home :beer:, with a minimum of stress and grief

 

[Dash8]

Yeah, Ive heard that flying a TP can be a little harder than the RJ's currently out there. Power management is much easier in the jet in comparison.

I don't know if I could agree with you there...while i've never flown a jet, i do know that it requires more dilligance in power mgmt particuarly in regards to descents. The dash is an incredbily easy plane to fly, she'll do just about anything you ask of her (other than go fast)
buddy of mine transitioned from atrs to the junkjet, and he said pretty much along the same things, the jet was more automated which made it easier, but in hands on flying, the prop was more forgiving, but hey, thats just my opinion, i might be wrong, awh f**k it, who wants some pie?

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

Go Pdt

The Dash is great to fly, meaning easy, forgiving, much like a beefed up 172. The RJ isn't hard to fly, but it is very synthetic, if you like to fly airplanes you won't lke the RJ, besides the fact it goes fast, but the Dash can go 230 to the marker then have a ref speed of 88kts, no RJ can do that.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Yes I am, but that isn't germaine to the situation, so please withhold your prejudices.


well, bully for you then, but just because you have had that be the 'normal' course of things, doesn't mean the same is true for everone else, and this isn't a pdt/alg thing, because i've known a number of pdt guys with the exact same complaints



Yes, they most certainly did/do have people they were 'gunning' for. I witnessed it, in person. Names were most certainly mentioned, including my own. I am not the only person to have witnessed such an event either.
Granted, this may not include the entirety of the traning department, but definately JK and some of his lackeys. I don't believe the world revolves around me, but when presented with facts and information, its hard to dispute the truth of the matter.



well you obviously have a bone to pick with alg guys, what it is? frankly I don't care.
I'm trying to do my part to make things better here, no, alg wasn't perfect far from it, and yes pdt does do a few things a little better but on the whole, seeing both operations as they are/were, alg was better. You have to realize that we are in the particular position of being able to make a fairly full comparison between the operations and the shortcomings/promises of both.
Considering you didn't know what life at alg was like, you have no business coming down on people for expressing their opinions about the differing operations, and what can be done to improve them.
I also have been nothing but calm and professional in all my dealings with either mgmt, or trng, so being curteous doesn't solve everything unfortunately.
"Keep a low profile", thats exactly the kind of attitude that got pdt into the predicament it is in with the past ineffective or 'corrupt' union leadership that sold out the junior pilots or anyone else for their own benefit.

You obviously don't keep abreast of the situation here, in that the company does in fact ask (or coerce might be a better turn of phrase) people, to abrogate the contract, bend FAR's, or do what a person may consider 'unsafe'. On a semi-regular basis, how many times has penny told some one "just do it and grieve it"? or mechanics asked to pencilwhip a writeoff to get the plane on its way, I've had mechanics admit that to me as well. So don't tell me what the company does or doesn't do, I'm aware....
Thats not to say that mgmt doesn't sometimes 'do the right thing' for people in need, but that doesn't absolve them of their other transgressions and failings with the draconian style thats been fostered here.

The 'ostrich syndrome' is what let management run amok here and turn pdt into the culture of fear that it is today.
Do you think its just coincidence that newhires are leaving in droves, especially prior to their first cq? To go make LESS money someplace else??
I only hope that Tempe eventually turns their eye towards salisbury sees how the operation is being run as far as personnel, and enacts a corporate culture more like their own after some heads roll. I know some people at HP and if we had mgmt that took after their style, this would be a much happier place. I'm not so deluded as to think there still wouldn't be issues of some kind, you can't always please everyone, but it would have to be a far sight better than what we're living with now.

So, in sumation, don't be so quick to ridicule or dismiss anyone complaining about issues they had with people that you may have had adequate dealings with. There are definately bias' in this company (mgmt and training) towards and against various people on property, some I'm sure deservedly so, and some not.

*steps off my soap box and smashes it gallagher style*

When its all said and done, I just want to come in, do my job, and go home :beer:, with a minimum of stress and grief

You and I actually agree on a fair amount, it seems. I am well aware that abuses, especially in the lower strata of management, can and do occur. However, I can only speak from experience. I haven't been here forever, yet I am not exactly just off the proverbial turnip truck. I can honestly say I have NEVER been asked to bend or violate an FAR. On the few occassions where my contract was being violated, a call to flight management rectified the problem, save one occassion. That one was an illegal junior manning that was later resolved through the greivence process. Frustrating at times? Yes. Culture of fear? Not in my opinion.

I have never stuck my head in the sand. I have simply chosen my battles wisely and always talked to my bosses like they were, well, my bosses. Disagree with respect for the other opinion, but never give in.

As far as a bone to pick with the ALG folks, well, I kind of do have one to pick. I will say the majority of the ones I fly with I enjoy, but there is a sizable (in my perception, anyway... Feel free to disagree) minority who harbor almost a militant anti-company attitude that should be checked at the cockpit door. I carries over into the cockpit and creates a less than professional atmosphere. If I wanted to listen to constant gripping, I'd stay home with my wife (sorry honey!). The level of standardization concerns me as well. If I hear one more "well we did it that way at ALG" I am going to throw up. I don't care. It isn't personal. Just do it like the book says, don't scare me then lets go watch football and have an adult beverage.

As far as your opinions regarding corporate bias against certian individuals, I have no doubt that exists in Salisbury. I have just never seen demonstratable proof of that existing in training. You are pretty much free to sink or swim on your own when it comes to that. As for your own personal situation, I really can't address that. I have worked with allot of the instructors on the line as well as had training with them as well. Never have I experienced behavior that I would characterize as "lackey-ish." The training department perfect? No. Something out of Kafka? No way.

And your comment about the union leadership? No arguement there. I have been wholly dissatisfied with the lack of competance and transparency with which the pilots' business has been conducted.

For the record once agian, I am not saying that everything is hunky-dorey. Far from it, but it isn't the end of the world either. For example, I think the person/persons who orginated the "Pilot Dependibility Program" have a special room awaiting them in Hell. I would just like to see less complaining, more professionalism, less reliance on rumor and inuendo and more action on hard facts.

I know, I know... I am dreaming. Lets have some beer.

 

[Sig]

Lets have some beer.

I'm buying, for all of us.

C'mon out to the beach. Door's always open.