PIC vs. signing for aircraft

[plattsburgher]

I have 4 columns:

All PIC
PIC Heavy
Part 1 PIC
Part 1 PIC heavy

I should probably get a hobby or a job, or something.

 

[AA717driver]

The POI at TWA(backed up by a friend who's a fed) said we could log any time we sat in the left seat of the 767 as PIC. We were IRO's and were not the designated Capt.

I never did it but some guys did and it is apparently legal if not accepted by employers.TC

 

[enigma]

The POI at TWA(backed up by a friend who's a fed) said we could log any time we sat in the left seat of the 767 as PIC. We were IRO's and were not the designated Capt.

I never did it but some guys did and it is apparently legal if not accepted by employers.TC

The POI at Mesa back in 1990, agreed. He told me, first person, that it was legal for me to log my legs in the KingAir (I was a B200HDC FO) as PIC. Not 135 PIC, but PIC just the same. I did so, then later, after being given the third degree about the time in a couple of other airline interviews, I just lined it all out and refigured the totals. Having logged time in that way was waaayyyy more detrimental than it was worth. It was legal, but not airline legitimate.

regards,
enigma

 

[cruxx@9]

PIC or Captain?

If you have been given a Part 135 PIC ride, I believe it's the 135.299 check ride, then you are blessed as a captain. This is the deal, the airlines want to know how much time you signed for the aircraft. That is the captain, the are looking for that. That is a big difference. Because they know that the "captain" is the one who is responsible for the flight. Honestly, if you are still looking to the other pilot for advice, fuel loads that sort of thing....then he/she is the captain.

The airlines want PIC time defined as that, the times YOU made the decisions. As far as logging it...there is nothing wrong with logging PIC if you have been given that .299 checkride. If you interview, the airline that is interviewing you is not going to pull your logpages. They will get the records from your company that say when you recieved your PIC checkride and assume that you were a captain from that time on. I agree with the theory of NOT logging SIC and PIC on the same trip. If you decide to log PIC....log all PIC.

As a low time pilot, scrapping for PIC time, it is easy to want to put as much PIC in your log book. This is the voice of experience talking here, because I did that as well. I was typed in the aircraft, flew left seat and met the FAR 61.51 stipulations. However, after I became "the captain" and logged more than enough jet PIC, I felt bad about the other time.

One solution is that you keep a second column in your log book, or note it in the memoranda in the back of the logbook that you were logging PIC per FAR 61.51, but were not the captain. That is what I ended up doing, but it was after the fact, and now my logbook doesn't match my resume. I have a conversion in the back of my logbook that defines captain and PIC time. It's up to you....but as you get "captain" time and enough of it, you'll look back and may regret it. There is nothing wrong with logging it, however, if you get to the interview I would be honest. You don't want something to come back and haunt you later after you have enough time.

PM me if you want

Keep 'em in the green!

 

[WMUSIGPI]

anyone want to answer where flight instructor time falls in this "signing for plane" time discussion please?
at least til April this is all the time I have then it becomes an easier time, all sic because of 135 regs and a 2 pilot plane that I am not type rated for. (yes I will be getting the training and checkride to fly sic 135)

 

[AA717driver]

When you're flight instructing, you ARE the PIC. Period.TC

 

[enigma]

When you're flight instructing, you ARE the PIC. Period.TC

What about a double I, with no medical, giving instrument dual to a commercial pilot. Is that still legal? I haven't given an hour of dual in over ten years, and haven't been a full time CFI for over 16 years, so I could be a little behind the times, but the last time I checked it was legal for such a scenario to happen. In that case, I believe that the commercial pilot receiving instrument instruction is the PIC.

enigma

 

[flyboy]

Anytime you are acting as flight instructor, you will log PIC. Let's face it, if you are giving instruction to a commercial pilot and he crashes the airplane, the FAA will give him grief. However, it won't compare to the grief they will give you as a CFI in the front seat. I tell my friends that are not CFIs, "when an emergency comes up or if you are about to kill us, it's my airplane. If I'm going to get the blame for a crash, then by goodness, I'm going to be the one that crashes it."

 

[WMUSIGPI]

That's what I thought too. Just wanting to make sure.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

I tell my friends that are not CFIs, "when an emergency comes up or if you are about to kill us, it's my airplane. If I'm going to get the blame for a crash, then by goodness, I'm going to be the one that crashes it."

If I was paying for the plane and hadnt hired you to give me dual and our experience level was similar Id tell you to blow it out your a$$, or walk.

 

[ultrarunner]

If I was paying for the plane and hadnt hired you to give me dual and our experience level was similar Id tell you to blow it out your a$$, or walk.

Amen to that. The last thing a pilot needs is someone getting all 'high and mighty' just 'cause he has a CFI certificate. And isn't even there to act in that capacity.

 

[flyboy]

And I'd tell you to find another instructor (or pilot that fills the void of your own lack of confidence), walk away, then walk back, punch you in your right eye for being a smart A$$, then return to walking away.

 

[ultrarunner]

ahh, pilots and ego, hand-in-hand.

One big happy family.


good grief

 

[flyboy]

It's not about ego, it's about not liking smart a$$S.

 

[LAZYB]

Logging PIC...

Gee, let's wait a couple of months and do this all over again...

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

And I'd tell you to find another instructor (or pilot that fills the void of your own lack of confidence), walk away, then walk back, punch you in your right eye for being a smart A$$, then return to walking away.

You missed the part where I specified that I had not hired you as an instructor, thus you were not using your CFI certificate. You and I had just rented a plane together for one reason or another.

Lets say I own a plane. I take you flying just for fun. We both have equal experience and ratings except you are a CFI and I am not (i actually am one too but im speaking hypothetically). We lose an engine and you try to take the controls from me and you'll be wearing the crash axe.

 

[flyboy]

i really don't think so.

 

[enigma]

NANA-NANA-BOO-BOO. I can pee farther than you can.

Grow up, boys.

enigma

 

[AA717driver]

enigma--I should have been more specific(always on this board! ).

A CFI giving dual to a student is the PIC. Two CFI's riding together, well, that's just dangerous. Kind of like having two management pilots flying together... TC

 

[JimNtexas]

Just keep two columns:

1. Part 61 defined PIC (sole manipulator of the controls in an aircraft in which you are qualified)

2. Part 1 defined PIC (signed for the plane)

keep it simple.

Hey Hugh, you are making it WAY too simple!!!!!

How can we act like condesending swelled head asses if you introduce common sense like that?????