PIC on Checkride

[minitour]

Talking acting not logging PIC on the checkride here.

During the PPL ride, you are the PIC and the DPE is (technically) your first passenger.

During the IR ride, if you're rated for the plane (ASE) you can log PIC but who acts as PIC? I asked my -II before my checkride if I could file under my name for the checkride and was given the "can you legally file IFR?" response. (to which I replied, "not without the ticket" - he seemed happy with that response)

I guess the same question would be for the Multi ride. I would assume that you are PIC and the examiner is your first passenger in a multi?

Anyone know how this works? Looking for regs to study on it. I'm assuming its in 61?

Thanks for the help guys.

-mini

 

[avbug]

§ 61.47 Status of an examiner who is authorized by the Administrator to conduct practical tests.

(a) An examiner represents the Administrator for the purpose of conducting practical tests for certificates and ratings issued under this part and to observe an applicant's ability to perform the areas of operation on the practical test.

(b) The examiner is not the pilot in command of the aircraft during the practical test unless the examiner agrees to act in that capacity for the flight or for a portion of the flight by prior arrangement with:

(1) The applicant; or

(2) A person who would otherwise act as pilot in command of the flight or for a portion of the flight.

(c) Notwithstanding the type of aircraft used during the practical test, the applicant and the examiner (and any other occupants authorized to be on board by the examiner) are not subject to the requirements or limitations for the carriage of passengers that are specified in this chapter.

Can you operate under IFR without an instrument rating? No. During the practical test, you are pilot in command. Acting pilot in command. You do not have authorization to fly under IFR without the rating. As a private pilot, you can legally carry a passenger, and there is no issue with the examiner being on board. Clearly, unless you have both agreed to the contrary, you are the pilot in command.

As a student pilot, you may not carry a passenger. However, during a practical test, 14 CFR 61.47(c) alleviates you of being subject to that restriction. You are authorized to operate without being subject to the passenger carrying restriction spelled out by 61.89(b).

And you have authorization, in accordance with 61.47(c) to operate with the examiner on board, and not be subject to the restrictions against carriage of passengers. This also applies during the course of the practical test for your multi engine rating.

 

[nosehair]

You may act as PIC with regard to passenger carrying, but not filing or flying IFR.

The Examiner must agree to acting as PIC if he wants you to file(under his name). That is the reason most examiners only do instrument checkrides on VFR days, and not filing. Sometimes they might want the applicant to file, because it used to be ok to file, but not fly in IMC without an instrument rating, and some of these old geezers still live in the past. Sometimes I still do, and that's why I can say that.

 

[SpeedMetal]

anytime an instructor signs off an applicant for a checkride, the applicant now holds the certificate or rating he/or she is signed off for, so yes they are the pic. it is up to the examiner to take the certificate or rating away from them. that was told to me by an examiner once before to make it easy to understand. hope it helps.

good luck

 

[PropsForward]

anytime an instructor signs off an applicant for a checkride, the applicant now holds the certificate or rating he/or she is signed off for, so yes they are the pic. it is up to the examiner to take the certificate or rating away from them. that was told to me by an examiner once before to make it easy to understand. hope it helps.

Wow, this is a real grey area now. I agree with SpeedMetal with the PIC because we have our private students act and log PIC on the pvt checkride. And this is the nut of a checkride (for the examiner/inspector to check the CFI's work). But I also remember sending a student for a Instrument ticket and the conversation came up that if the weather was crappy that I would have to file and then ride in the back seat as PIC. I thought this was way to creepy and made the student wait for a better day. Any thoughts?

Whoops! disregard. Just (re-)read avbugs post 61.47 and all.....

 

[midlifeflyer]

anytime an instructor signs off an applicant for a checkride, the applicant now holds the certificate or rating he/or she is signed off for, so yes they are the pic. it is up to the examiner to take the certificate or rating away from them. that was told to me by an examiner once before to make it easy to understand. hope it helps.

That's a nice warm and fuzzy way of putting it, but the student is PIC because 61.47 says so. And 61.47 is about trying to protect examiners from liability rather than turning the 8710 application into a pseudo certificate.

 

[nosehair]

Hey, wait a minute! This seems to be going wrong. The original poster, Minitour (burp) was asking about acting *acting* as PIC on an IR Practical Test. I posted you cannot. Avbug *italicized* the part of 61.47(c) which says you are not restricted from the carriage of pax, but then he goes on to say, as does midlife and Speedmetal, that 61.47 gives a blanket authorization to act as PIC on *any* ride.

Am I wrong? I am thinking that 61.47 does not give authority to act as PIC under IFR.

 

[minitour]

Hey, wait a minute! This seems to be going wrong. The original poster, Minitour (burp) was asking about acting *acting* as PIC on an IR Practical Test. I posted you cannot. Avbug *italicized* the part of 61.47(c) which says you are not restricted from the carriage of pax, but then he goes on to say, as does midlife and Speedmetal, that 61.47 gives a blanket authorization to act as PIC on *any* ride.

Am I wrong? I am thinking that 61.47 does not give authority to act as PIC under IFR.

Yeah, I'm kinda getting confused.

I get the part about carrying pax. It makes sense. But I didn't get the whole IFR thing. Basically I was just curious if it would have been legal for me to file with my name on the flight plan rather than the examiners (acting PIC rather than him)...

More of a curiosity thing than a "something I have to know" thing. You guys don't think this would come up in an oral somewhere down the line (CFI, ATP, interview) do you?

Thanks again for the help guys!

-mini

 

[avbug]

I'm not certain from whence the confusion stems.

61.47(c) provides that during a practical test, and a practical test only, the applicant is job subject to regulation regarding the carriage of passengers.

61.47 does not speak to operations under IFR, filing of flight plans, flight under instrument conditions, or anything else relating to instrument flight.

May one act as pilot in command during a practical test for a certificate or rating? Yes. One is required to do so, by regulation (unless an agreement is reached by the applicant and check airman to the contrary).

The question is then posed as to weather one may operate under IFR during a practical test for an instrument rating. One may not act as pilot in command under instrument conditions, or under instrument flight rules (IFR), unless one is instrument rated.

One may act as pilot in command during a checkride. However, one may not act as pilot in command under IFR (which means rules, not conditions), without the rating. You can file the flight plan all you want, but you may not receive an instrument clearance, nor operate under instrument flight rules, without being rated accordingly.

If you want to do so, then the examiner is going to have to act as PIC, if you don't hold an instrument rating.

61.47(c) permits you to fly an airplane for which you're not yet rated, and not be limited by the passenger carrying restrictions that would otherwise apply. Don't read any more into it than that, because that's as far as it goes.

 

[minitour]

avbug

Thanks...I think I probably was reading too far into it...

re-read it and understand...gotcha!

Thanks again

-mini