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Perspective and (non-revisionist) History

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Candide

Extreme Moderate
Joined
Apr 11, 2003
Posts
89
I've been coming to this forum less and less as the vitriol becomes more and more venomous between the SWA usual suspects and their Airtran counterparts.

While the 7th grade level of insults hurled by some of the SWA guys are unfortunate and inexcusable, I'm finding that many of the more vocal AAI posters are becoming increasingly detached from perspective and history. This is a problem, because I can see you becoming more and more angry, more and more militant, and more and more likely to be an negative force at your new company.

I understand the angst AAI guys have. I get it. It's justified. Your cheese has been moved and your near term future rearranged. (Remember, the same exact thing can be said for SWA FOs and junior captains).

But try to step back and gain a bit of history and perspective. I offer this photo to facilitate the exercise. I present it not to scream about how you guys had a 98% strike vote (at the time, I personally admired your resolve against a demonstrably antagonistic management), but to (hopefully) make a couple of perspective building points.
Take a look:http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/cnishared/tools/shared/mediahub/00/88/20/slideshow_1208804_airtran.JPG

It's from August 2009. While it is a good illustration of where you guys were just a year before the SWA deal, I draw a more interesting conclusion.

That handsome Airtran FO is holding a sign reading "Airtran pilots paid up to 26% less than peers."

What I find interesting is, on your old contract, you were actually paid as much as 50% less than your seat position and longevity counterparts at SWA. Yet the guy designing a sign intended to give the max rhetorical bang for the buck for a media event decided that SWA apparently wasn't a "peer", and therefore should be excluded. Which is odd because saying "up to 50% less than our peers" would make for much better copy on the AJC.

Now fast forward a couple of years. You now have, or will soon have, those pay rates that you didn't even consider to be in your league during picketing. While upgrade may be delayed for FOs, you receive a pay increase comparable to an upgrade. While many of you guys think you got a bad deal on the SLI, you seem to forget SWA is a much older group (the increasingly angrier PCL-128 will retire as the #1 or 2 on the list--not too bad for a GIA alum!). While you guys are justifiably upset now with management, you have a chance (if you take it!) of a future in which conflict with the company is very mild and the need to design picketing signs is in the past. And while job security is never absolute, SWA is a much more seaworthy vessel in which to ride out the turbulent ocean of the airline industry.

While the present and near future will have some serious wound licking (believe me--there are wounds on BOTH sides that need attention), look to later in the decade and beyond. How likely do you think your career at Airtran would have ended as a top-paid wide body captain? How likely do you think that is now that you're on the SWA list?

So I ask all of us, SWA and AAI--try to be positive. Try to be optimistic. Because both positivity and optimism are justified if you don't succumb to the cancer being spread by on this forum and elsewhere. Also, negativity and pessimism are rarely productive world views. And let's not disregard old Abe Lincoln's advice: a house divided against itself cannot stand.
 
Unfortunately on an anonymous board, a mature discussion can easily be lost.

Nice post.

And Lee, I know no one can tell you what to do, but I beg of you to let this thread take on its own life without your input. Thank you in advance.
 
You're right, nobody can tell me what to do, but being optomistic is one thing, knowing the process to get you where you are today was flawed is another. Your group had 2 recent examples to follow during the merger process. One was easier, one was and still is tough. You had a choice. I believe, along with others, that the wrong path was taken. It almost seems like one side feels punished? Why is that?

But, here is some good news:

Southwest plans to speed up AirTran integration

Memphis Business Journal

Date: Tuesday, December 18, 2012, 7:39am CST

Southwest Airlines plans to speed up the integration of its AirTran unit in 2013 with the goal of fully integrating the airline into its own business by the end of 2014, The Wall Street Journal reports.


Dallas-based Southwest (NYSE: LUV), bought AirTran last year. The integration is expected to add $400 million in revenue and cost savings next year, Southwest's Chief Executive Gary Kelly told the Journal.
Southwest has slowed its integration with AirTran because of the struggling economy, but is currently testing new technology to connect its network with AirTran and will begin matching schedules and jointly selling tickets for each other's flights in January, the Wall Street Journal reports. Southwest hopes to fully connect the networks by April.

Memphians have been waiting for their shot at Southwest flights — and hopefully lower fares — since the merger closed. Delta Air Lines Inc. currently is the dominant carrier at MEM, but as it has slashed its flight count and raised prices, local travelers are seeking more options.




Good luck with all of that!



Bye Bye----General Lee
 
Excellent post Candide.

Food for thought ; it is possible to be optimistic and distrustful at the same time. What we've been shown so far does nothing to allay any of our fears. Quite the contrary.

Dicko - Cynical optimist by nature. Pimp by night.
 
Thanks, dicko.

Personally, I think a little bit of cognitive dissonance is not only OK, it's essential.

For an example of how untempered optimism can go badly, look up my moniker in Wikipedia.

I decided to post because it seems like the discussion is headed for an unrecoverable spiral. When we all start to believe our own bull********************, things can get out of hand quickly and irrevocably.
 
Boy I remember that. Those were the days huh? if you all notice, the guys picketing are wearing their AirTran emblems on their hats and shirts. The first time we picketed, we couldn't even do that because our management said that the wings and hat emblems showing the AirTran logo technically belonged to the company and anyone wearing one will be disciplined, so you ain't kidding about antagonistic management.

Sir, in your post above you basically narrate the theme of, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the general theme of: we were not making sw money, we were looking to make 26% more than what we were making, which would still equate to 25% less than sw pay, and now since we will be making sw money, which would equate to 50% more of what we were asking for to begin with, shut up about it and be happy. Is that basically it?

You also ask the question about the possibility of ending a career as a wide body capt at AirTran vs sw. Now in my personal situation, I have 26 years left until retirement. While unlikely, that AirTran would have ordered any widebodies during my tenure, I think it is less likely for sw. They just don't have the need. Airplanes are designed for a particular mission and the 737 is a very good airplane for the missions that sw uses them on or will use them on in the future. Two -800's in the seating capacity at sw equate to 1 777 and are far more economical to operate, and even more so when the Max-8 comes along. So no, no wide bodies at sw. Won't fit the model. I do see some Max-9's possibly. Maybe the ER version, but that's about it.

While I do applaud your effort in trying to gain some harmonization between the AirTran and sw pilots, unfortunately only time will do that. I don't think anyone is talking about being a negative force and if there are any that are saying so, trust me it is a small group. I think what you can expect from the AirTran pilots as they transition to sw is complete professionalism and a sharing of success in our new company as we move forward together to make this thing great. But for a while, I wouldn't expect more and quite frankly nothing more should be expected of us. We will show up, do our jobs to the best of our abilities and go home to our families. Nothing says I have to have a beer with you and nothing says I have to hang out with the crew on a layover. Now that being said, I have had plenty of good layovers in various hotels where AirTran and sw crews both stay and have had the pleasure of talking with and mingling with sw crews and have been made to feel very welcome and enjoyed myself. But I have not had to share a cockpit with them the next day. So we will see how this plays out in the future. Oh and also, there are plenty of AirTran people I won't have a beer with either.
 
Nice Picture. I'm behind him about 5 people, and the lovely gentleman in front on the right is Frank Early, who was on the Merger Committee. All 4 other members of the MC and all but one of the NC were there that day as well.

Point is, there are people who were willing to strike to obtain fair contract gains who are both accepting of the situation and who are unhappy with the result. I appreciate your approach, but I don't recognize any link between contract issues and future happiness with such a huge change in career expectations.

Instead of going through the ways and reasons I disagree with your view of what our perspective should be, I will just say Thank You for the sincerely open approach to the issues that we face moving forward.

717Capt has it about right as well. There's a lot to adjust to, and it's not just all about the money. Life never is.
 
Lear and 717capt,

Thanks for the honest, thoughtful responses.

When I get pissed about the latest irritant at SWA (Flight Ops' genius moves, merger crap, crew scheduling irritation, etc.), a quick conversation with my American Eagle neighbor or AA buddies sets my mind straight. Or a reflection on just how crappy my work rules were in the Navy helps me realize how good I have it now. In other words, a bit of perspective lowers my blood pressure and probably makes me a little bit easier to fly a three day trip with.

It is that mechanism--perspective through honest reflection--that I hope to encourage with this thread.
 
Thanks, dicko.

Personally, I think a little bit of cognitive dissonance is not only OK, it's essential.

For an example of how untempered optimism can go badly, look up my moniker in Wikipedia.

I decided to post because it seems like the discussion is headed for an unrecoverable spiral. When we all start to believe our own bull********************, things can get out of hand quickly and irrevocably.


I read Candide in my twenties and it's always stuck with me. It's still sitting on my bookshelf.

I think pilots as a culture are fact and result based. It's one of the things that we have in common.

Most feel that we have been lied to and blackmailed. Some feed hungrily on the purple teet.Our livelihood was subtley threatened. That's a difficult thing to accept for most people. Especially when that message is followed by a very real financial and quality of life degradation. Followed by a complete denial of any responsibility.

I see no facts, no plan and no results. What I do see is a W2 that says the same thing it did before the last contract. That's negative 20%. The 'junior' reserve FOs with young families have been hit much harder. Reserve encompasses 40% of pilots at AirTran now.

The price we pay for LUV. How's that for optimism ?:D

Dicko
717 Captain. Base TBA.
 
They definitely got the right pilot making the turn with the sign.

Classic! Remember, it's not about the money.

Also classic how the General couldn't keep his mitts off the thread. Awesome.

Well thought out post Candide. Whether you agree with the premise or not.
 

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