Personal Bankruptcy

[pipejockey]

I firmly believe that your choices lead you to the situation you find yourself in.

Well this we agree on. My choice of pursuing my dream is what brought me to this circumstance. You say you owned your own plane? Well Bart, I am nowhere near the situation you were in. If you could afford a plane you must have been doing quite well for yourself and luckily had some assets to help you out perhaps.

If I could sell my vehicle and downgrade to a lesser I would. If I could sell a home and buy a lesser home, I would. But I'm at the bottom now.

I just noticed your position is VP of finance? I dont know if that is a joke or if its real. But if you are in fact VP of finance somewhere you must have a good education and used that education to pull yourself out of your former problems. My education has no value outside of the cockpit. And the sad thing is, I can no longer afford to put myself through a traditional education such as accounting for instance. I'm stuck with menial low paying work that will BARELY pay my monthly loan debt and take the the whole term of the loan to pay off, which is 20 years or more. By that time the best days of my life will have been over.

 

[learflyer]

Bart, I'm glad you have the world figured out. I wish you the best that you never suffer any hardships.

 

[FalconPilot69]

pipejockey

Remember, thanks to the lawyers, you cannot discharge your student loans in a bankruptcy. As far as what to do, it is ultimately your choice.

My wife and I were living comfortably at $80K/yr prior to 9/11 and were on pace to be debt free by the beginning of 2003. We both lost our jobs right after. My job personally went away on 9/17. After depleting our savings trying to "do the right thing", in the end, the creditors could care less what you are trying to do. After fighting for a little over a year we were forced to file. When they start to threaten with law suits, even though you have continued to talk to them and attempt to get relief, they really give you know choice. Do I feel that I am a lesser person than the next person, heck no. Do I wish that the circumstances were different and I was able to pay my debt, you bet.

It is a tough choice no matter which way you go, but like others have said, your credit is messed up for 10 years, but you will be able to rebuild it.

I wish you luck.

 

[avoidingmyboss]

Pipejockey,

I try not to throw stones in glass houses so I won’t. I am not going to tell you that you made a mistake. At the time it sounded like reasonable good plan. I can honestly say that this is as good in aviation as it gets for me. I’m not furloughed and I make descent money. I am in debt, if I lost my job tomorrow I would consider chapter 11. That debt got me my job today. There was a special on TV a few years ago that featured an American pilot who was retiring. He said he had at one time in his career he had to get food stamps. He had nothing, no wife no house no car etc.

I don’t know anyone if they lost their job tomorrow would be ok in 6 months. A few years ago I made $18,000/year. Life sucked and I tried to pay all my bills on time but did not. It came down to roof over my head with no heat or heat with no roof. My present employer has no problem with this issue. I pay all my bills on time now and have a nice house. I think if aviation is what you want in life than pursue it and take any job you can get, it shows integrity. Try and figure out a way to pay the money back. I’m not an attorney and don’t play one on TV but chap. 11 means no cash to the people you owe. Most banks want their cash and are willing to work with you and take some instead of none.

If a future employer asks you about your finances you have to explain yourself. If they treat you like an a-hole then you don’t want to work for them any way. I think a lot of people are in your boat now and if there not they may be someday. Good luck

 

[pipejockey]

Thanks for the comments.

I need to add though, its the government student loans that may not be able to be discharged. As far as private loans, they are dischargeable so I'm in the clear on that.

 

[starchkr]

Isn't there another BK that allows you to repay your debt at very reduced payments and little or no interest? I thought there was...maybe chapter 13?(something like that) I don't think it damages your credit as bad because you still must repay your original debts..it just makes it much easier. Maybe something to talk to your lawyer about.

 

[wingnutt]

its a sucky position to be in for sure. as has been pointed out, not everything can be planned for. one good divorce in which she keeps the house, the car, and the furniture...and guess who gets the bill for it

starchecker makes a good point. im unsure how the others work, but a Ch 13 wont hurt your score as badly as you might think...this is not to say it wont have a negative impact, but if you go Ch 13 and make your payments on time, and get it discharged within your plan limit, youre scores will be in the 600-650's by the time its discharged.

again, i dont know the inner workings, but nowadays, anyone with anything over a 600 can get an unsecured card, and then youre back in the game before you know it.

...good luck with your decision.

PS. dont bother with a credit counseling service, its just as bad on your credit as a BK. in fact i can recall some applications that ask if youve ever been involved in a BK, or credit counseling...they look at it the same way.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Swass:

WTF is that avatar of yours? A wet cat cross-bred with a human?

It gave me a nightmare last night!

 

[quigs]

BK is BK according to the fair isaac scoring model(credit score model). I have seen a lot of incorrect info posted about this subject. I would recommend anyone who is interested about credit or has any questions to go to a very informative board called www.creditnet.com this is the most thorough information I have found. To say after BK that you would have a 600-650 score is false. There are too many factors that go into a score, I forget the amount, but I will tell you that the model is kept secret from most. They do not want you to know exactly what it is based on in fear of what people would say. Two exact people with identical credit will most often have different scores and no one knows why except the folks who designed it.

Good Luck..

 

[KigAir]

So i must side with the folks who believe that it is NOT always a show of ones character when they file BK.

True but how does an employer know what the true circumstances are? How are they to know if the person is a deadbeat? Given 2 individuals with equal work credentials, the person without the BK will probaly get the job.

 

[wingnutt]

Two exact people with identical credit will most often have different scores and no one knows why except the folks who designed it.

agreed, but...

To say after BK that you would have a 600-650 score is false.

...this was exactly the situation i found myself in long ago, so on this point, i disagree

 

[starchkr]

Kingair..

You are right, and i agree that to an employer it could have an impact on who gets the job. Now is that right or not, well i don't think it is. As i have said before, circumstances change in ones life that might force the BK even though they are not of "bad character." I personally think credit should be kept between the consumer and those who that specific consumer seeks "credit" with and thats it. My employer does not need to see it, my insurance company does not need to see it, and the most recent i have heard about health insurance companies needing to see it. All of this just to raise our premiums... go figure, anything for more money.

And no i do not have a BK in my past, so i am not trying to hide anything....for now.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Very interesting thread.

I have enough in savings to cover rent and basic expenses for 12-18 months. I did this by delaying gratification on MANY thing for years. Maybe I'm different.

I'm a real 'personal-responsibilty' sort of guy, but I'll tell you what I suggest:

Declare BK. You will never outrun it on a pilot's salary.
Get a night job and be a CFI for a year or two. Pay your dues.

Bridge programs are, as we can see here, not all that they are made out to be. Accept the consequences. Earn your airline seat the old fashioned way. I expect to see many other such cases as yours.

There are few shortcuts that really work.