Per Diem Rates and Practices

[Okaythen]

Just wondering how most of you are paid for your meals when on the road. Do you just expense it all on a company card, or do you receive per diem? If it's per diem, how much per hour, and when does the clock start and stop? Any other pertinent info would be nice.

I'm in the unique opportunity to influence some policy making, and I want to do it right the first time.

OK

 

[Flywrite]

We fly a mix of 135/91. We get $1.50/hr per diem for all duty time (24hr/day while away).

 

[banned username 2]

We are Part 91... We have company reimbursed expense accounts...

 

[Flying Illini]

There are two sides to this. If you expense everything, you can always eat decent and don't have to pinch in certain locales (Aspen where everything is expensive). On the other hand, if you are per diem, sometimes you come away with money in your pocket. I guess it depends on how good the per diem rate is and if the company is willing to provide "special" per diem for trips to expensive locations (ours doesn't).

that aside, let me answer your question:

normal: $1.80/hour = 43.20 for the day (24 hrs) anything domestic

special: $2.80/hour = 67.20 for the day (24 hrs) anything international, or trips that fall on a weekend or holiday, we also get this when we go to school.

Both rates start from the time you go wheels up at home base until wheels down at home base

Like I said above, I've come out waaaay ahead on certain trips (school-you don't have time to spend alot of money!) but I've also come out behind at places like Aspen...and that's just eating normal meals, no steaks, no brews! I think in the long run, expense accounts save the company money. I know I've done alot of fun stuff on my per diem that wasn't "meal-related" (i.e. sea-kayaking, skiing, etc.).

edited for: We are 98% part 91, 2% part 135
(I second the $100/day mentioned below!)

 

[gear_guy]

I think the norm is:

91=company card.
135=per-diem.

I enjoy having a company expense account. It allows me to eat well. But the pay is usually better on the corporate side. I think 135 guys appreciate the extra $ over nice food. You could have it both ways. How bout $100/day per-diem?

Good Luck

 

[501261]

All expenses go on the company Amex (pilots keep the points). No set spending limits on expenses (if we can't trust you to make good spending decisions on a dinner, how can we expect you to be making safety of flight decisions).




Some of the problems with per diem is A) it's taxable to the pilot!! And B) I don't want to have to worry about pilots trying to save money by skipping a meal or staying at the "No Tell Motel" for $15 a night to save a buck, and then not having them mentally or physical ready to fly the next day.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

A real expense account is the only way to go.

If you are flying 135/charter/corporate you will be going to expensive places. You simply cant enjoy Aspen/Boca/Palm Beach/Bermuda etc..on "per diem". Its bad enough you get dragged these places for days on end, might as well enjoy it - stay in nice hotels, enjoy the good restaurants, bars etc... Want to eat on $35 a day in Aspen? maybe at Clarks supermarket...$35 a day in bermuda? hope a bagel and some fruit holds you over...Stone crab season in Florida? not for you!....and having a few martinins or beers?? fugget about it..

you get the point..worrying about that $hit takes a LOT of the fun out of this kind of flying. We have no set limits on ours...use good judgement or be called on the floor..$35 bottle of wine...fine.....$125 bottle of wine..."c'mon in my office"...it will get paid, but you dont want that attention. This system works just fine.

If you are interested more in how perdiem works there is a good thread over on the regional board about meals. These guys talk about packing frozen bags of soup, cans of tuna, and dried fruit to eat in thier rooms at the La Quinta Inn. It gets even better when they rob food off the nasty a$$ breakfast bar each morning...all to save gas money....its downright depressing.....

If you want perdiem - got to the airlines. Stay at the airport hotel, eat at Wendys, quick turn and go home...nothing wrong with that for some folks - but living like that outside the airlines...miserable..

I say get your money in salary. The sign of an severely underpaid charter/corp pilot??? -- He starts his salary answer with "well, when I add in perdiem I made XXXXX last year"...

nice...

 

[501261]

If you are interested more in how perdiem works there is a good thread over on the regional board about meals. These guys talk about packing frozen bags of soup, cans of tuna, and dried fruit to eat in thier rooms at the La Quinta Inn. It gets even better when they rob food off the nasty a$$ breakfast bar each morning...all to save gas money....its downright depressing

I saw that thread, and yes that is pathetic, especially when they're robbing the breakfast bar in uniform.

 

[Okaythen]

Thanks for the excellent responses! Coming from a charter company that doesn't pay ANY daily per diem and only $25/day for overnights, I'm ready for a change. I'm happy to hear that the standard is more in line with my expectations.

OK

 

[surveypilot]

We actually have a mixture at our company. Hotels, Rental cars, and supplies are on expense account. Meals and incidental expenses are on per diem. We use the government per diem rate tables. http://policyworks.gov/org/main/mt/homepage/mtt/perdiem/perd04d.html

These rates are variable rates between $31 and $50 depending on the specific domestic location. International rates are in a different table are usually substantially higher. I usually bring home about 20% of what I receive in per diem.

 

[mavrck]

we are 91/135 and all Expenses reimbursed 100%. They give us a guideline of what they think is resonable for meals and let us go over it in expensive places to a certain extent. We dont abuse it. And they dont make too much a stink bout it.


by expenses, i mean meals, hotels, taxi, tips.. etc. Entertainment and extracurricular stuff is on our dollar. Couldnt let it get too good for us now.

Mav

 

[Flying Illini]

Some of the problems with per diem is A) it's taxable to the pilot!! And B) I don't want to have to worry about pilots trying to save money by skipping a meal or staying at the "No Tell Motel" for $15 a night to save a buck, and then not having them mentally or physical ready to fly the next day.

Our special per diem is non-taxed. We don't have to use it for hotels, rental cars, gas, etc. The company puts us up in nice hotels (4 stars or better whenever possible) and we use the company AmEx card to pay for the car, gas, hotel, catering, and whatever else is required for the pax. Our per diem is for whatever else we want to do, eating, going to a movie, souveniers, whatever. I must say that I am pretty happy with our per diem rates, it's always nice to put a little extra cash in your pocket. And I've never skimped on a meal just to try and save money.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

$45.00 a day domestic, AMEX actual expenses international.

 

[501261]

Our special per diem is non-taxed.

Just because the company doesn’t take taxes out of your per diem doesn’t mean you’re not responsible for it (definitely something you’d want to consult with your tax advisor about).

 

[Flying Illini]

without this straying too far from the original topic of the thread...

I talked to several people while at school about per diem and they say it isn't taxable. Turns out that one of our guys (forgive me, i'm not sure of the proper terminology) gets all of the taxes taken out of "normal" per diem returned to him at tax time. I don't know if this is correct or not...anyone know more? Is per diem taxable? Can you get the taxes taken on per diem returned to you when you file your taxes?

 

[deskjobssuck]

Hmmm, any way to delete an accidental double posting?

 

[deskjobssuck]

Just to set things straight, I tend to borrow from the breakfast bar the night before. Just ask the front desk and they'll usually let you in to the kitchen. That way you can actually eat some dinner, too.

Sorry, just looking forward to the day when I get more than $1.25/hr per diem and overnights longer than 8.5 hours. Anyone looking for a Be-1900 typed pilot?

 

[gear_guy]

Just to set things straight, I tend to borrow from the breakfast bar the night before.

I'n not sure I would use that word, but whatever. Oh wait, that's right! You're returning it to them through the pipes, are'nt ya. My bad.

 

[Brett Hull]

No limit for us, either (1 a/c, 3 pilot pt. 91). Just use our best judgement. We did splurge at Mortons steak house in Indy the other night to the tune of $170, but that's very rare.

My only complaint (other than the boss consistently not calling to tell us he's going to be 2+ hours late) is that the company issues each of us a Visa card with only a $2000 limit for motels, rental cars and meals. It's in our name, and we still have to turn in our expenses so we can be reimbursed the money to pay the credit card bill at the end of the month. I told them not to bother giving me the company Visa, and just use my own. Anyone recommend a good one with airline points or something?

Here's a follow on question about cell phones. We pay our own cell phone bill, but we turn in a copy of the statement and are issued a reimbursement check for the charges. Another company a couple of hangars down has a specific cell that stays with the each airplane. You pay for your own. Any one else heard of any crazy cell phone deals like this?

 

[aroundtheblock]

As far as taxable per diem the rules are as follows:


If you are on a 1 day trip, then perdiem is taxable.
If the trip is overnight then it is non taxed.

I was laid off from US Air, and now I'm corporate. Expenses are the way to go. The words "cheap" and "pilot" go hand in hand and most pilots, unless you are a Delta Capt, will forego nice or even average meals to save a buck. Most of our airline crews wouldn't even go to Chile's cause they wanted to pocket the $2/hr per diem. I agree with the posts above, don't abuse the expenses and you'll enjoy your time on the road much more. Let's face it, we are on the road for them not for us so you you don't have to eat like kings but you shouldn't be eating fast food either.

 

[Bandit60]

without this straying too far from the original topic of the thread...

I talked to several people while at school about per diem and they say it isn't taxable. Turns out that one of our guys (forgive me, i'm not sure of the proper terminology) gets all of the taxes taken out of "normal" per diem returned to him at tax time. I don't know if this is correct or not...anyone know more? Is per diem taxable? Can you get the taxes taken on per diem returned to you when you file your taxes?[/QUOTE

Its been awhile since I was on a perdiem. Now I am on expenses. However, I do remember that the IRS only allows a certain amount per day to be tax-free. Anything over that amount(which I dont know what it is) is taxable income.

 

[banned username 2]

I do remember that the IRS only allows a certain amount per day to be tax-free. Anything over that amount(which I dont know what it is) is taxable income.

You are correct, the max used to be $1.25/hr, anything over was taxable... Not sure what the current non-taxable rate is... this was info from about 8 years ago...

 

[FracCapt]

You are correct, the max used to be $1.25/hr, anything over was taxable... Not sure what the current non-taxable rate is... this was info from about 8 years ago...

Now it's $41 per day for CONUS, and $46 for "OCONUS"(which, I assume they mean anything outside the Continental US - but try eating 3 meals in Paris for $46). If you really want to wade through a bunch of crap to see what all the requirements/limitations are, go to:

http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/irb/2003-45_IRB/ar17.html

 

[falconpilot]

We operate just like the company G200 works for.... We pay for everything on our company AMEXs plus we get a $2000 cash expense account for interantional trips just incase some places don't accept AMEX, and for tips and handling fees. Company pays for our cell phones, but if you go over your plan, you pay the difference. The perks of flying corporate can be great. Just don't abuse them.