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People Express Blows!

luckytohaveajob

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People Express blows. People was a communist, reinvented abortion of an airline. The fact that pilots loaded bags, shoveled snow, volunteered for dispatch, and worked as a janitor is proof of its incredible failure.

People Express failed as an airline. Its philosophy, actions, and plan sucked!

And anyone who claims it was anything other than a failure is a loser.

Any carrier infected by Frank Lorenzo was a failure. Frank even took great carriers like Eastern and Frontier into the toilet. Use the toilet paper to wipe the brown off your mouths and move on.

CAL inherited all the baggage and will never get rid of it.
 

NuGuy

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Heyas,

All of the above may be true, but they still had guys lined up to work there and drink the kool-aid, and they still had people lined up to fly them.

Cheap seats...at any cost.

Nu
 

luckytohaveajob

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Heyas,

All of the above may be true, but they still had guys lined up to work there and drink the kool-aid, and they still had people lined up to fly them.

Cheap seats...at any cost.

Nu

true enough but to think it was a glorious experiment in airline history is a false myth of failed memories.
 

cldsfr79

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Ummm....Do you even know about the history of People Express? The airline was started by Don Burr, who did work Lorenzo under Texas Air, but disagreed with Lorenzo's work ethics and vision, so Burr went out to start a new airline. People Express helped revive the Newark airport and was a highly successful and "fun" place to work. Its down fall was its rapid expansion and the purchase of the original Frontier Airlines. To much debt over took People Express, and Burr, against his own judgment, sold the airline to Lorenzo. People Express was then blended into Continental Airlines, making it a larger airline. I do agree though that Lorenzo was a terrible airline head and only cared about himself and his addiction to greed.
 

luckytohaveajob

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Peoples= SKYBUS

I am very familiar with the People story. It was a stock market explosion. People's made millions, grew at triple digit percentage expansion its first few years. Problem is none of it was real. It It started in late 1981 and was toast by 1986. Five years of hype. And the only thing that kept is going for five years was the hype of the hype.

The working conditions were hideous. The pilots paid for their own coffee they got from the FA's. The FA's ripped off the company every chance they got, pocketing the cash only purchases. Everything was Alla carte. The passengers paid on the plane for the seat, seat belt extender, the cokes they drank, everything. If Don Burr could have rigged a Boeing lavatory lock to accept quarters the toilets would have been pay to go.

I remember another airline which used the People Express model. It was called SKYBUS! You must be a big fan of Skybus if you liked Peoples.

Peoples, SKYBUS, and todays CAL management are cut from same cloth in every way.
 
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StopNTSing

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People Express blows. People was a communist, reinvented abortion of an airline. The fact that pilots loaded bags, shoveled snow, volunteered for dispatch, and worked as a janitor is proof of its incredible failure.

People Express failed as an airline. Its philosophy, actions, and plan sucked!

And anyone who claims it was anything other than a failure is a loser.

Any carrier infected by Frank Lorenzo was a failure. Frank even took great carriers like Eastern and Frontier into the toilet. Use the toilet paper to wipe the brown off your mouths and move on.

CAL inherited all the baggage and will never get rid of it.

Uh...keep on beating it if it makes you feel better, but that horse died a long time ago...
 

Colonel Savage

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All that from a guy whose user ID is luckytohaveajob.

Now that, that's funny!
 

SSDD

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Curious! People Express has been dead since before the current crop of pilots were out of diapers. Skybus tried it and failed misserably. What brought this rant?
 

luckytohaveajob

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cut and paste out of the CAL FLU thread

Current CAL CP

[FONT=&quot]He didn’t come up with this nonsense on his own—it flows downhill from on high like everything else. Captain Stankovich is the original “Friend of Fred”. These two have been together since being new-hires at People Express. People Express: no First-Class—in either seating or operational philosophy, pilots throwing bags or cleaning airplanes on their days off, and no seniority as we know it (until PBS came along, that is). Stank knows his future is attached like an umbilical cord to the Vice President of Flight Operations. He has his office job, he receives director’s management bonuses, and he is allowed to fly past age-60 because he is a “Friend of Fred” Abbott. Lest you think our upper management is being given a clean bill of health on this, remember that flight ops management does not exist in a vacuum—they are what they are through the support of upper management—and this particular buck stops at Larry Kellner’s office.[/FONT]
 

clickclickboom

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Take a look at Jetblue.. The only difference is that Jetblue survived past the 5 year point and the rumor about having to start paying for planes was obviously false..

Today management is still scratching their heads trying to figure out how to run an airline while the employees keep the operation together on a daily basis..

just wait until the pilots there finally grow a set and vote in ALPA..
 

crj567

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Shouldn't this thread be titled "PeopleExpress Blew?"
-As in a long freaking time ago???
 

Flyingtom145

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I grew up in the NYC metro area and can still remember when my family went to Florida on a family vacation flying Peoples. It was a real late night flight and my dad told me that we had to get there early to get seats or we would have to stand and hold on to straps the whole way. Needless to say there were no straps, but it was almost like being on a subway train. Good times.
 

Kugelblitz

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People's Express is a huge part of why our airline is an unsavory place to work. We have the most managment sycophantic and unfriendly pilot management I have had since my Transtates days.

I don't see any reason to try and tie this situation into politics (ie, PE was communist) since this P.O.S. was clearly a response to the, then, newly deregulated market and the nascent big business aspirations of autocratic mangement with no union organization. PE and it's modern day successors are simply manifestations of the deregulating mania that is largely responsible for the destruction of our present economic climate and the imbalance of salaries and benefits in our nation since the mid 1980's.

I guess I just tied this situation into politics. Oops.
 

pilotyip

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AAL did it.

Ummm....Do you even know about the history of People Express? The airline was started by Don Burr, who did work Lorenzo under Texas Air, but disagreed with Lorenzo's work ethics and vision, so Burr went out to start a new airline. People Express helped revive the Newark airport and was a highly successful and "fun" place to work. Its down fall was its rapid expansion and the purchase of the original Frontier Airlines. To much debt over took People Express, and Burr, against his own judgment, sold the airline to Lorenzo. People Express was then blended into Continental Airlines, making it a larger airline. I do agree though that Lorenzo was a terrible airline head and only cared about himself and his addiction to greed.
Its downfall was AAL and Crandall who booked no shows on key flights to reduce load factors to nothings. They did this by taking advantage of not having to buy your ticket until you got to the airplane. Source "Hard Landing" BTW The pilots hired the first year, got a hugh bonus, close to 100K, which the nid 80's was the price of a very nice house. Plus they got to jump over to SWA with their 73 type ratings. source saw fellow reserve P-3 pilot do it.
 
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The Prussian

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Its downfall was AAL and Crandall who booked no shows on key flights to reduce load factors to nothings. They did this by taking advantage of not having to buy your ticket until you got to the airplane. Source "Hard Landing" BTW The pilots hired the first year, got a hugh bonus, close to 100K, which the nid 80's was the price of a very nice house. Plus they got to jump over to SWA with their 73 type ratings. source saw fellow reserve P-3 pilot do it.

Hmmm...I'd check your source again....if you can find him.

I'd also check your pockets....you might a been took....
 

labbats

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HA25

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I am very familiar with the People story. It was a stock market explosion. People's made millions, grew at triple digit percentage expansion its first few years. Problem is none of it was real. It It started in late 1981 and was toast by 1986. Five years of hype. And the only thing that kept is going for five years was the hype of the hype.

The working conditions were hideous. The pilots paid for their own coffee they got from the FA's. The FA's ripped off the company every chance they got, pocketing the cash only purchases. Everything was Alla carte. The passengers paid on the plane for the seat, seat belt extender, the cokes they drank, everything. If Don Burr could have rigged a Boeing lavatory lock to accept quarters the toilets would have been pay to go.

I remember another airline which used the People Express model. It was called SKYBUS! You must be a big fan of Skybus if you liked Peoples.

Peoples, SKYBUS, and todays CAL management are cut from same cloth in every way.

I will say this, the similarity between what Diffendorfer (The CEO who stole Skybus from it's founder John Weikle in a boardroom coup) tried to do with SX and People Express is striking... we all knew it when he came on board and began to "change everything" .. but he underestimated how desperate many of us were to find a stable job, and he also made the mistake of allowing his HR to hire a lot of old crusty dogs who in some cases spent full careers at DAL, USAir, etc.. and in other cases furloughed guys who at least spent some time at a major and got a taste of how a pilot contract works.. He wanted the pilots to "go the extra mile" in the hopes our stocks will balloon like those of Ryanair or Southwest... some of them did, but 95% of them helped form a resounding vote count to bring the IBT on property, and with in 1 week of that vote, they announced that "we're out of money and need to shut down"... magically the Investors saw his business plan was hi-jacked by the pilots and panic spread.

Oddly, had the original founder been retained in the position of CEO, pilots would have been earning substantially more and moral higher, and that 95% vote count might never have happened.. But once again, when a CAL lackey steals the helm from the visionary airline builder with the backing of the likes of Morgan Stanley and Fidelity on the board of directors, what else can you expect?
 
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