Pentagon to triple the number of drones

[Dizel8]

Rez... go smoke a joint, sling a gear handle, and let the warriors secure your freedom.

Freedom from who? An Afghani poppy farmer?

Sorry Sig, I appreciate where you come from and what you do, however, as much as you despise civilians raising objections, they have that right.

No, I have no numbers, but I think more Afghanis have lost their lives in this war, than 9/11, certainly we know more Iraqis did.

I have little doubt, that the US forces goes above and beyond when it comes to sparing civilians, but nonetheless civilians are killed. Obviously, we got seriously mad when 9/11 happened, and for darn good reason, well, I have little doubt the Afghanis feels the same way, when their cities are targeted.

Two wrongs doesn't make a right, just like Abu Graib was a sad reflection on the US, so is killing civilians, fog of war is a sad excuse, when it is your son, daughter, wife or husband killed.

I appreciate all the sacrifices made by our services, personally I wish they were not in harms way, I don't believe true democracy can be forced upon people.

 

[JungleJett]

If a passenger walked up to you and said "I think you are waaaayyyy over paid for the little work you do." What would you response be?

No one here has said civilians are not killed...I will say that they are NOT targeted. Civilians die in war, no one can dispute that. One civilian death is too much..and Allied forces go to great lengths to avoid those deaths. They also go to great lengths to prevent the death of civilians by keeping them safe from attack...sometimes at great risk to those sent to protect them. No one wants to acknowledge that...or give credit where it is do.

Civilian losses are tragic and they are counter productive. What Rez and those of his kind do not realize is that we go to tremendous lengths to avoid them to the detriment of US forces. The current ROE protects civilians but severely limits and risk our operations. Rez would rather see 1000 US servicemen killed and one civilian life spared. He simply does NOT understand that the UAV does more than shoot missiles..he REFUSES to see that. Everyone here has acknowledged the fact that civilians deaths..he cannot show the same consideration to the positive aspects of the weapon system. He just likes pointing out the negative aspect of everything.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If a passenger walked up to you and said "I think you are waaaayyyy over paid for the little work you do." What would you response be?

I'd tell them to justify that statement just as I am asking you to do the same...

No one here has said civilians are not killed...I will say that they are NOT targeted. Civilians die in war, no one can dispute that. One civilian death is too much..and Allied forces go to great lengths to avoid those deaths. They also go to great lengths to prevent the death of civilians by keeping them safe from attack...sometimes at great risk to those sent to protect them. No one wants to acknowledge that...or give credit where it is do.

Yet they are still being killed. What you need to consider and so far fail to do is look at the risk and ultimately what we are gaining from these conflicts in Afghanistan. The Iraq war was/is a sham. Wash DC civilian leaders (basically CEOs who took federal jobs; Rummy, Cheney and Bush) and sent honorable men into harms way. For what?


What is the end game in Afghanistan? Sure there are acts of honorable efforts on the part of the US servicemen/women but the point is macro global policy.

Can you even tell me what kind of socio economic and political environment Kabul and Afghanistan need to be for the US the pull out. Where it is now and how we will get there.

Civilian losses are tragic and they are counter productive. What Rez and those of his kind do not realize is that we go to tremendous lengths to avoid them to the detriment of US forces.

nonetheless they still occur.

The current ROE protects civilians but severely limits and risk our operations. Rez would rather see 1000 US servicemen killed and one civilian life spared.

Negative. I would rather see 0 servicemen killed. I'll say it again. ZERO. You on the other hand are willing to have an amount of attrition. A value greater than zero. Do you see the difference now?

Your ideology claims that the world and therefore people are a dangerous place and that some sort of order must be instilled. Even if it is military invasions and occupations. War is peace.

What you need to be doing is also telling us what a you are doing to end wars on a citizen front. War is not peace.

What do you say to the Iraq/Afghan Vets that are seeking citizen action, working the halls of Congress to stop the war? http://www.ivaw.org/
Do you despise these fellow Americans. Do they get a pass from you because they served and I am just a tax paying citizen... even though the basic message is the same....

He simply does NOT understand that the UAV does more than shoot missiles..he REFUSES to see that.

Is this how would you would explain it to a toddler Afghan girl that lost her parents and now much live a life of you and I cannot possibly imagine?

Please... you feel you are so righteous, then provide the text of the justification you'd provide to an Afghan child who lost both parents to a weapon system that also does "good". What would you say to her so that she would feel her loss was "for the greater good"

Everyone here has acknowledged the fact that civilians deaths..he cannot show the same consideration to the positive aspects of the weapon system. He just likes pointing out the negative aspect of everything.

the positive aspects of the weapon system.

Has it sunk in yet?

 

[JungleJett]

I'd tell them to justify that statement just as I am asking you to do the same...

You would ask them on what basis they make that observation. What "experience" do they have to feel qualified to make that observation. You have NO experience but are more than willing to offer an opinion on something you know nothing of.

Yet they are still being killed. What you need to consider and so far fail to do is look at the risk and ultimately what we are gaining from these conflicts in Afghanistan. The Iraq war was/is a sham. Wash DC civilian leaders (basically CEOs who took federal jobs; Rummy, Cheney and Bush) and sent honorable men into harms way. For what?

Yes they are being killed...again NO ONE HAS DENIED THAT IS HAPPENING!! I wish there was a crayon font..it might help. What we hope to gain is some stability in that region. War is not an easy thing..except for those like you who quarterback from the comforts of your own home. You need to quit thinking that things will happen in a short time. These people have lived with violence for years..and they are living with violence now. Our aim is to get it to stop...and yes, that means sometimes through violent methods. You stop a guy from shooting you by shooting him. You have met violence with violence. You will not be the judge of what we do...history will be. You will once again benefit from those efforts while questioning them and condemning those who provide the benefits. You are always touting being part of the solution instead of being a bystander. Yet, you sit back and question and condemn without getting involved. What is good for others is not good for you? Hypocritical? Yeah..I think so.

By the way Obama is continuing the war and adding to it. Is he a CEO as well?? Just curious how your other hero looks in your eyes. He could stop it within 6-12 months.


What is the end game in Afghanistan? Sure there are acts of honorable efforts on the part of the US servicemen/women but the point is macro global policy. See above.

Can you even tell me what kind of socio economic and political environment Kabul and Afghanistan need to be for the US the pull out. Where it is now and how we will get there. I will let the experts figure that out. You are NOT an expert yet pretend to be one.


nonetheless they still occur.


Negative. I would rather see 0 servicemen killed. I'll say it again. ZERO. You on the other hand are willing to have an amount of attrition. A value greater than zero. Do you see the difference now?

We are not willing to have any but understand it happens. Are you ready to quit flying an airplane because an accident may happen or do you accept it might happen and do what you can to prevent it?

Your ideology claims that the world and therefore people are a dangerous place and that some sort of order must be instilled. Even if it is military invasions and occupations. War is peace.

Did war bring peace to Europe post WWII? Yes or no?

What you need to be doing is also telling us what a you are doing to end wars on a citizen front. War is not peace.

It can be a means to an end...and that sucks..but it is the nature of mankind. You do not live in the real world but want everyone else to join you on your planet...which is as fictional as your concern for serviceman and women. You would not shoot an attacked because you would have to meet violence with violence. I understand you are a pacifist. Read what I wrote about war being an ugly thing...but not the ugliest of things. It says a lot.

What do you say to the Iraq/Afghan Vets that are seeking citizen action, working the halls of Congress to stop the war? http://www.ivaw.org/
Do you despise these fellow Americans. Do they get a pass from you because they served and I am just a tax paying citizen... even though the basic message is the same....

I have the utmost respect for them and am humbled by their service. They have earned the right to speak out and I am proud that they choose to. They speak from a position of EXPERIENCE while you basically talk out of your mud hole. Your opinions are well known and they are clearly anti-military and anti-American. Clearly.



Is this how would you would explain it to a toddler Afghan girl that lost her parents and now much live a life of you and I cannot possibly imagine?

You cannot imagine it. I have seen the life these people live and for the most part, they are happier with very little. You cannot begin to understand that as you post over 12000 post from the comfort of your own home. You also do not know the efforts that are happening while I type this in Afghanistan. Doctors, nurses, social workers..visiting villages to help those in need. I guess your "sources" miss that. There are LINES of hundreds waiting for help..and it is being provided. So again, your ignorance shows. No one will ever be able to replace that toddlers family...and it is truly tragic. Again, it is TERRIBLE THAT IT HAPPENS>>>BUT IT DOES. DOES IT MAKE IT RIGHT, NO!! BUT IT IS A UNFORTUNATE FACT OF WARFARE and has been forever. WWII cost over 50 million lives...millions of those civilians. Was WWII a just war? Would you have allowed the continued slaughter of people just so you would not have to fire a bullet? Peace at all cost....I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees. You?

Please... you feel you are so righteous, then provide the text of the justification you'd provide to an Afghan child who lost both parents to a weapon system that also does "good". What would you say to her so that she would feel her loss was "for the greater good"

Do you understand the term "weapon system". Tell me what it means to you since you have all the knowledge and speak from a position of great experience.

She would not understand....

How would you explain to her that her parents were killed by a suicide bomber that drove his truck 20 miles down a road while under constant surveillance by an orbiting UAV that President Rez dearmed because of the possibility of civilian casualties. Or that President Rez gave troops bubble gum instead of bullets? Would you sit back and watch that little girl get raped, acid thrown on her face, tortured in front of her parents, maimed? Would you watch her school (the first school she was able to attend) get blown up..while she is inside? Would you watch her family get killed because she attended that school? Would you watch all of that while you had the power to stop it...? I am thinking you would...and that is what is sad about you..and pathetic too.


Has it sunk in yet?

You have probably never had to deal with true adversity. Life or death in the blink of an eye. True discomfort. Not knowing whether your next step might literally be your last. Yet you willfully want to deny protection to those better than you....and weep for the civilians you could really care little about. You have done NOTHING to help them when there are countless opportunities for you to do so. That little girl is just a tool for your continual attacks on US policy and our Armed Force...and you take some sort of perverse pleasure out of it. You do not care whether they live or die....as long as it feeds your rhetoric.

Your a sick pathetic excuse for human being.

So to answer your question..no and it will not sink in.

Why do you spend so much time on this website? Do you have a family..kids..a job? Maybe take a break..reset...get your mind right. Then come back.

 

[JungleJett]

By the way...I would like to see a ten fold increase in UAV operations. If it means this war ends sooner, bring them in. If it means one less American OR Afghani death....I will fly one.

Rez..I am going to assume you will quit flying since flying sometimes kills people because of human error. Pilots have killed people.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'd tell them to justify that statement just as I am asking you to do the same...

You would ask them on what basis they make that observation. What "experience" do they have to feel qualified to make that observation. You have NO experience but are more than willing to offer an opinion on something you know nothing of.

They are consumers who pay for a service that has costs including labor. Yet you are suggesting that in the market place you tell the customer that have no experience but are more than willing to offer an opinion on something you know nothing of.

Why do you defend my freedom and then presume to control my freedom Col Jessup?

Yet they are still being killed. What you need to consider and so far fail to do is look at the risk and ultimately what we are gaining from these conflicts in Afghanistan. The Iraq war was/is a sham. Wash DC civilian leaders (basically CEOs who took federal jobs; Rummy, Cheney and Bush) and sent honorable men into harms way. For what?

Yes they are being killed...again NO ONE HAS DENIED THAT IS HAPPENING!! I wish there was a crayon font..it might help. What we hope to gain is some stability in that region.

Before you go this far... was the invasion justified? Now, have we created stability? Was progress can you show? Other regions lack stability.. will we invade there too?

War is not an easy thing..except for those like you who quarterback from the comforts of your own home. You need to quit thinking that things will happen in a short time. These people have lived with violence for years..and they are living with violence now.

Problem is.. now we are responsible for this violence.

Our aim is to get it to stop...and yes, that means sometimes through violent methods.

Violence begets violence. When we finally leave Iraq are we going to tell the thousands of lives we've destroyed and ruined, the kids whose parents we've killed... that it is all over and we're friends now... and not worry in 20 years they will attack us as terrorist?

You stop a guy from shooting you by shooting him.

No. You don't even go there in the first place. How do you stay out of a bar fight? Don't go to a bar.

You have met violence with violence.

Really? Is that what they think or we think? Poverty is the worst form of violence. People in desperate circumstances will do desperate acts. If they believe US foreign policy keeps them in poverty...violence.. then they will justify thier acts...

You will not be the judge of what we do...history will be.

As a tax payer and a citizen of a free society you are wrong.

You will once again benefit from those efforts while questioning them and condemning those who provide the benefits. You are always touting being part of the solution instead of being a bystander. Yet, you sit back and question and condemn without getting involved. What is good for others is not good for you? Hypocritical? Yeah..I think so.

If the question is never raised how do we acknowledge the problem?

By the way Obama is continuing the war and adding to it. Is he a CEO as well?? Just curious how your other hero looks in your eyes. He could stop it within 6-12 months.

I am disapointed in Obama. you should be pleased. In addition, Rummy;s and Cheney's former companies made millions to billions off of the invasions... conflict of interests? I am disgusted that our honorable service men and women were put into harms way while these criminals profited. Aren't you?

What is the end game in Afghanistan? Sure there are acts of honorable efforts on the part of the US servicemen/women but the point is macro global policy. See above.

negative. these questions require you to think. Do it.

Can you even tell me what kind of socio economic and political environment Kabul and Afghanistan need to be for the US the pull out. Where it is now and how we will get there. I will let the experts figure that out. You are NOT an expert yet pretend to be one.

Neither are you, yet you seem to believe that what we are doing there is justified. If you can't discuss the goals of victory, then how do you know what we are doing are even valid?

Would you rather live in a country where military action is questioned or not questioned? The latter would be quite fearful.

nonetheless they still occur.

Negative. I would rather see 0 servicemen killed. I'll say it again. ZERO. You on the other hand are willing to have an amount of attrition. A value greater than zero. Do you see the difference now?

We are not willing to have any but understand it happens. Are you ready to quit flying an airplane because an accident may happen or do you accept it might happen and do what you can to prevent it?

Epic failure of reason and logic. You are not willing but we are willing. War is peace.

Commerical transportation is an agreed upon risk that everyone accepts for the benefits. The civilians we are killing did not agree to be killed. Get it? You are taking the very right of existance away from someone without reason or due process.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Your ideology claims that the world and therefore people are a dangerous place and that some sort of order must be instilled. Even if it is military invasions and occupations. War is peace.

Did war bring peace to Europe post WWII? Yes or no?

So war is peace. Thanks for clearing that up. In WWII Hitler was the invader. Who is the invader now?

What you need to be doing is also telling us what a you are doing to end wars on a citizen front. War is not peace.

It can be a means to an end...and that sucks..but it is the nature of mankind. You do not live in the real world but want everyone else to join you on your planet...which is as fictional as your concern for serviceman and women. You would not shoot an attacked because you would have to meet violence with violence. I understand you are a pacifist. Read what I wrote about war being an ugly thing...but not the ugliest of things. It says a lot.

You accept war and all of its horrors as a means to an end. That is a scary immoral road, a slippery slope to try and navigate, even for the smartest of minds.

In addition you assume that people are by nature misguided and at times evil and that war, while horrific is needed to stop these evil people. These misguided people are never us... always them...

What do you say to the Iraq/Afghan Vets that are seeking citizen action, working the halls of Congress to stop the war? http://www.ivaw.org/
Do you despise these fellow Americans. Do they get a pass from you because they served and I am just a tax paying citizen... even though the basic message is the same....

I have the utmost respect for them and am humbled by their service. They have earned the right to speak out and I am proud that they choose to. They speak from a position of EXPERIENCE while you basically talk out of your mud hole. Your opinions are well known and they are clearly anti-military and anti-American. Clearly.

How are my views anit American? Because they force you to think and create a level of uncomfort? So only people who have the experience you judge to be satisfactory are acceptable. You jusdge which citizens are worthy and which are not.

Citizens must pay thier taxes but keep silent on matters. This is what you and King George believe(d).

Is this how would you would explain it to a toddler Afghan girl that lost her parents and now much live a life of you and I cannot possibly imagine?

You cannot imagine it. I have seen the life these people live and for the most part, they are happier with very little. You cannot begin to understand that as you post over 12000 post from the comfort of your own home. You also do not know the efforts that are happening while I type this in Afghanistan. Doctors, nurses, social workers..visiting villages to help those in need. I guess your "sources" miss that. There are LINES of hundreds waiting for help..and it is being provided. So again, your ignorance shows. No one will ever be able to replace that toddlers family...and it is truly tragic. Again, it is TERRIBLE THAT IT HAPPENS>>>BUT IT DOES. DOES IT MAKE IT RIGHT, NO!! BUT IT IS A UNFORTUNATE FACT OF WARFARE and has been forever. WWII cost over 50 million lives...millions of those civilians. Was WWII a just war? Would you have allowed the continued slaughter of people just so you would not have to fire a bullet? Peace at all cost....I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees. You?

You must have a comprehension problem. I asked you to justify the death of a childs parents.. not a rant. If you can provide a reasonable explanation of why this must be that would satisfy an Afghan, we might make some progress. Ball is in your court.

Please... you feel you are so righteous, then provide the text of the justification you'd provide to an Afghan child who lost both parents to a weapon system that also does "good". What would you say to her so that she would feel her loss was "for the greater good"

Do you understand the term "weapon system". Tell me what it means to you since you have all the knowledge and speak from a position of great experience.

She would not understand....

How would you explain to her that her parents were killed by a suicide bomber that drove his truck 20 miles down a road while under constant surveillance by an orbiting UAV that President Rez dearmed because of the possibility of civilian casualties. Or that President Rez gave troops bubble gum instead of bullets? Would you sit back and watch that little girl get raped, acid thrown on her face, tortured in front of her parents, maimed? Would you watch her school (the first school she was able to attend) get blown up..while she is inside? Would you watch her family get killed because she attended that school? Would you watch all of that while you had the power to stop it...? I am thinking you would...and that is what is sad about you..and pathetic too.

Nice try... there are atrocities worldwide... are we to invade the world? The problem is when we invade countries and take control we become responsbile for all the good and bad. When does it end? And how do we decide which countries to invade and which ones to not...

Has it sunk in yet?

You have probably never had to deal with true adversity. Life or death in the blink of an eye. True discomfort. Not knowing whether your next step might literally be your last. Yet you willfully want to deny protection to those better than you....and weep for the civilians you could really care little about. You have done NOTHING to help them when there are countless opportunities for you to do so. That little girl is just a tool for your continual attacks on US policy and our Armed Force...and you take some sort of perverse pleasure out of it. You do not care whether they live or die....as long as it feeds your rhetoric.

Your a sick pathetic excuse for human being.

So to answer your question..no and it will not sink in.

Again... lets focus on the issues. Either you can deal with the very real topic of war or not. Is it personal? Obviously for you it is. Would you rather I be indifferent to the honorable service of our citizens and the plight of Afghans and Iraqi's.....? or is it better than I am concerned and involved. If so, must I be so on your terms?

Why do you spend so much time on this website? Do you have a family..kids..a job? Maybe take a break..reset...get your mind right. Then come back.

Why do you care? Why do you defend liberty for all Americans only to allow yourself to be filled with rage and hate when someone excecises that liberty?

 

[JungleJett]

Rez, I just had a brief drink with a friend transiting through my base coming back from Afghanistan. We started a conversation you might find insightful, even with your disdain for those in uniform and for this country. Pass along some information and I will put you two in touch. If you are afraid of what you might hear, you will show by a lack of a response. I got a pretty good perspective from something he said...and something I would share with you but it would be wasted words.

Finally, I have no hate for you, it is more pity than anything else. I cannot imagine someone so filled with distrust and disrespect could ever understand certain things and no amount of words will ever change that. While you think the sole purpose of the military is to destroy lives, I see it differently..and you can never or will never see it that way.

You have joined the ranks of the ignored..both by me and history.

Peace!

 

[JungleJett]

That ignore feature is like toilet paper!! Just one clean swipe and all the $hit is gone!! Very cool!!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, I just had a brief drink with a friend transiting through my base coming back from Afghanistan. We started a conversation you might find insightful, even with your disdain for those in uniform and for this country.

I've told you multiple times I have respect and honor for those who serve, its is the foreign policy. You fail to address this. Why.

Pass along some information and I will put you two in touch. If you are afraid of what you might hear, you will show by a lack of a response. I got a pretty good perspective from something he said...and something I would share with you but it would be wasted words.

PM his/her contact info.

Finally, I have no hate for you, it is more pity than anything else.

Your rage and personal attacks speak louder than words.

I cannot imagine someone so filled with distrust and disrespect could ever understand certain things and no amount of words will ever change that.

Perhaps that is your problem. have you considered that mulitple view points are a healthy democracy?

What do you think on conscentious observers? Should they be shot?

While you think the sole purpose of the military is to destroy lives, I see it differently..and you can never or will never see it that way.

What is the purpose of a military? How do you see it differently? To help bring freedom and liberty to people. Is the MIL the only way?

You have joined the ranks of the ignored..both by me and history.

You defend all citizens freedom only to bury your head? Would you prefer a country that silences speech?

Peace!

That is what I've been advocating the US do... glad you finally agree.