Pension relief coming..which is huge

[General Lee]

Reuters
US Senate backs extra airline, steel pension help
Wednesday January 28, 12:13 pm ET


WASHINGTON, Jan 28 (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate on Wednesday approved an amendment granting an estimated $16 billion in special breaks for airlines and steelmakers as part of a pension relief bill, despite a veto warning from the Bush administration.
Under the provision, other companies could also apply for the extra help if they have severely ailing pension plans. But Bush Cabinet officials have warned they might recommend a veto over the provision.

The Senate was expected later on Wednesday to vote on the overall pension relief bill that allows companies with traditional pensions to contribute $80 billion less to their plans than under current law. This part of the measure has already passed the U.S. House of Representatives and is supported by the administration.




This is really great news for UAL, which was supposed to pay around $2.4 billion in the next 18-24 months, and also good for the other Majors--like Delta which was supposed to pay around $450 million this year and now will save around $250 million this year alone. (I read that in a past article) Now, if only President Bush will not veto this, which he could do but probably will not. This really doesn't help the LCCs, since it keeps the competition alive one more day to fight them.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ivauir]

Great! Now I can fund my retirement AND yours!

This really doesn't help the LCCs, since it keeps the competition alive one more day to fight them.

This doesn't just keep the "competition" alive - it subsidizes it. You'd better hope SWA and B6 can keep making money, other wise they'll be nobody around to pay for your retirement.

 

[canyonblue]

Freakin handouts

I'll bet Herb is pushing Bush to veto this. These same morons are the ones who pushed the segment tax to punish SWA. Now they need help because they can't pay their bills. Nice operations you have there. Hey my neighbor can't make his payment on his Direct TV. Maybe I should toss him a few bucks. This is just too sad. It's really starting to tear at my heart. Lead, follow or get out of the way.

 

[General Lee]

Oh well, I think it is time for all of us to have our pension plans in our own names, and invest on your own. That way, if the companies do go Chap 11 or 7, then you still have retirement in your own name and can take it with you. And, as far as George W Bush vetoing this, it is an election year, and think of the uproar from not only airline people (including the managment types who contribute heavily to the Republicans), but also all of the steel workers (didn't Bush try to help them with tarriffs?) and car workers etc....I can't see it happening.......(I hope not)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[OakRBust]

WHY?????????

Not you General... You type fast....


I hate bailouts..... except that one time in college

 

[General Lee]

Oakrbust,

Why not??? It is called Congressional help from each of the elected leaders districts.... They can't just watch people in their distrcits lose their jobs. Delta, AA, NW could have paid their share this year and still survived, but UAL and probably USAir (??) might not have.(I don't know much about USAir and their pension plans now) It will help us a lot, though.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ivauir]

I'll tell you why not - because it is taking my money and giving it to you! It makes me made as HE!!

 

[Falconjet]

Hand Out?

Its not necessarily a hand out, it just be that they are going to allow the companies to defer the payments to the plan until (if) they are in a better position financially to make the payments. The current laws allow the fund to be underfunded to 80%. It also prohibits companies from putting more in if it was more than 120% funded, so they couldn't pad it too much when times are good.

The down side to allowing the companies to defer the payments is that if they do go under eventually, there will be less in the funds for the retirees to receive, so their pennies on the dollar might be pennies on the hundreds of dollars. So I don't know if this is good news for the United and Delta pilots or not. I guess if it will help them go forward to eventually profitability so they can then fund the plan to 100% all will be ok in the end.

FJ

 

[P3-Adub]

Bailout ???

What do you people not understand about this initiative ? This is not a bail out, it is a spreading out of pension payments so that while the economy recovers so can these industries. UAL and US Steel are not asking for money from anyone, other than their employees. Just trying to compete against cheaper competition both in and outside the good o'l USA. UAL would love nothing more than to get rid of the pension plan and use a 401K plan, believe it or not as the stock market recovers, so does the value of the pension fund. Sounds as if you all want the retiree's, who worked for all of those years, to just be cut off and the remaining 65,000 people that work there just be given the bum rap ? LCCs who do not use a pension formula, because they don't have to anymore, and pilots willing to give up that benefit, funding their own retirement with 401Ks, are every bit of the problem. The lowering of the bar if you will. Wait till some lame new LCC comes up with some other cost saving, tradition breaking, brainchild new compensation package that ruins your current miracle business formula and your career. You won't be singing the same tune. The Govt. is not giving money to anyone and neither are the other airlines. I suppose if you guys had found employment with another airline that did have a traditional retirement/pension program you may not be quite so smug. This would be a terrific profession if it were not for the god's gift attitudes and the constant climbing over the backs of others to better ones self wonderpilots. Wonder where this profession is going ? Certainly not getting any better. SWA better start looking over their shoulder as the game is only just beginning, soon you will be considered over paid and be forced into concessions. I really don't want to hear about all of your's and Jet Blues success while the legacy carriers flounder as it has only come at a cost of lessening the profession and it costing many pilots their jobs. Gee, I really like the cheap fares. Who cares if comes directly out of pilots pockets by the way of career earning potential and career quality. Enjoy it for now, it will not last. I bet you are for cabotage and foreign ownership too ??? Just how cheap are you willing to work for anyway ???

 

[Beerme]

Well said!!! I agree wholeheartedly!

 

[jhill]

Re: Bailout ???

[ Enjoy it for now, it will not last. I bet you are for cabotage and foreign ownership too ??? Just how cheap are you willing to work for anyway ??? [/B][/QUOTE]

You need to settle down on the drinking.

 

[OakRBust]

We are lowering the bar.....

WOW, what can I say to that.


Speechless,

OAK

 

[canyonblue]

Re: Bailout ???

Just how cheap are you willing to work for anyway ???

I think you need to ask yourself that question. You complain about pay, benefits etc. You blame other pilots for the industry turmoil but shead no anger toward your own management. I can see that the HR Department did their job. They got a first rate Suck A$$. But you will go running back to your great 'ol airline the minute they call you back, no matter what the pay, because you man, (wipe away tears) won't lessen the profession. Sell crazy somewhere else Ace, we're all stocked up here.

 

[SWAdude]

Folks,

Historically speaking...if we(LCC) start hurting, you (legacy) start dieing.

Be careful what YOU wish for.

I wish no one i'll will.

Respectfully,

SWAdude

 

[Falconjet]

Off track

This thread just got way off track because the SW guys thought they were funding the other guys retirement and the other guys thought that the SW and other LLC pilots are lowering the bar. That should be another thread (actually not).

Its actually good news for the pilots at the other majors who hopefully will not have their company go bankrupt out from under them and then lose their entire pensions. By deferring the payments now in an effort to get healthly, perhaps they can live another day and fully fund the plans down the road.

Peace!

FJ

 

[jinxy]

Hey I got an idea. Why doesn't Delta, with it's superior product, just go and charge more so they can pay their employees whatever they want. I think I remember Leo saying something about superiority. Opps, I forgot...The public won't pay enough for the product to cover the expense of making it. Darn, now what do we do?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Hey, if your company cant make money -- go out of business.

I for one am a little sick of funding WELFARE AIRLINES with taxpayer money.

really, people WILL find another way to get to Atlanta.....

pathetic.

 

[OakRBust]

Hey JJ

Are you having trouble sleeping at night. I sure am.


Oak

 

[firstthird]

I'm pretty sure that the gov't has put money into steel pensions before and probably will again. The rust belt carries a ton of pretty volatile electoral votes, just look at the President's recently rescinded steel tariffs. He should have never imposed them but did in a political nod to WV and PA. I think there are something around 5 retired steel workers for each active steel worker and their pensions aren't the work till you're 65 type either. You think social security is screwed up with the current 1 retiree for 2 workers or the future 1 for 1 (rough guesses) imagine being the one working guy who has 5 retired guys counting on him, indirectly.

That being said, the pension rules are pretty screwed up. They need to do more of a look back or assume something like 6 percent return per year rather than the current 3 year look back (or 5 or whatever it is). During the 90's many companies were able to stop contributing since the market was going crazy, but when the bubble burst a few years back, bam, they went from having nice healthy pension plans to being woefully underfunded, and right when the economy is sour. Not to mention USAir where the judge just said, yea, screw the retired guys and cut it 70% (or however much it was). So you could retire with a fully funded one and if you don't have the lump sum option or choose not to take it for some reason, you can get screwed down the road even if your company was good to go when you hit 65. So, yep, I agreee the whole system is pretty screwy and I think I'll pretty happy with a 401K, but like eveyone says, you never know if you made the right choice till you retire (and not even then if your company goes chap 11 and cuts your pension by 2/3s)

 

[OakRBust]

The screwiest part of all of this is that the employees are the ones getting screwed (or ultimately will). Legacy Pensions are going by the wayside... Maybe not today or tomarrow... But they are surely jumping the shark. That only hurts the people getting ready to retire, and that truly sucks. I guarantee that not a single LCC pilot would wish that on anyone.

The stupidest thing is that people are blaming us for a Legacy carriers underfunded pension because we "lowered the bar." Could't have anything to do with changing times or lousy management..... I guess not. What was I thinking.

Who should you really be pissed at???

OAK