PDT vs TSA

[Ted_Striker]

I've done some searches on the forums and have found some really good info on both airlines, but I didn't find anything comparing the two. I'm going to be interviewing with both at the end of the month so any info you guys can share would be awesome! Thanks...

 

[waterski]

Stay away from TSA unless you live in RIC or STL

 

[flyer172r]

Stay away from TSA unless you live in RIC or STL

Ditto. Things are gonna get worse at TSA before they get better. Most FOs who have been here less than a year are looking to go somewhere else.

 

[relief tube]

ditto to the above. You can compare pay and workrules on your own, as you've probably done. TSA might have a healthier balance of flying but not much else. Every person I know that works there finds it to be a bad comapny to work for with ruthless management.

If you're someone who's apathetic enough and could care less how horrible a company you work for is, then it'll be fine there. Bad enough they have suceeded in starting a scab alter-e*************************T. Think of them as Mesa plus 1 in terms of that. The pilot group is a good group aside from those that jumped ship and became scabs.

I wish PDT was a completely better and easier decision to go with. It's almost an even decision considering. Not being the case, it comes down to how much you could deal with working for TSA.

Don't take my comments as complete facts. Who knows, PDT could be completely healthy now and TSA management, well, they're still pretty crappy. Just my impressions from actively following it in my 3 years at this job.

 

[retard]

Posted earlier on this forum by a very wise person:

"Fighting over which regional is better is like two homeless bums deciding whose box is better"

Every regional is the same, what it comes down to is where you want to live and your quality of life. If you are planning to commute, probably wise to go with PDT who I am assuming has a commuter clause which is not the case at TSA. Although, if you don't mind STL or RIC, TSA is not a bad place to start out. Beggers can't be choosers.

 

[STINKER]

TSA vs PDT

TSA is a crappy place to work I worked there for about a year and hauled but over to a better regional....

The crews are great at TSA but thats about all the company has to offer..if your looking for quadruple deadheads to fly a leg and schedulers who think you work for them its the place to be...

However if you wan't to work for a company that has better pay and benefits and tends to keep you in the loop then go somwhere else...

TSA will think nothing of washing you out of training to save a dime on simulator cost...come to think of it they don't think much of their employees at all

Good luck in your interviews!!

For what its worth I enjoyed my time at TSA because of the people I worked with not who I worked for!!!

Cheers,
Stinker​

 

[FAFInbound]

I was wondering if PDT has any type of commuter clause and which base might be best if one was going to try and commute to the west coast. I know commuting makes life difficult but the flying job I have now I only see my wife and family about 3 days a month. I figure with a regional job I might be able to get back to my family a few more days than that a month, even with a coast to coast commute. Thanks for any help.

 

[doug_or]

If you want to commute on PDT to the west coast, your best bet would probably be MDT (good ORD service), but it would suck. It would be a 2-3 leg transcon offline commute. If you want to live on the west coast, you'll probably need to expand your job search beyond PDT and TSA.

 

[temcgrew]

O.K. Let me get this straight, most everyone would say they enjoyed thier time working at TSA, but do not like the company itself. I don't get it, either you are miserable at the company or not. I've worked for TSA for over two years, I had heard the same things about the company and never wanted to work for such a "terrible" company. I do not commute, so that might have something to do with it, but also I go to work and do my job. I hardly ever see flight managers or the chief pilot or V.P.'s or any other of the cruel "company" guys. It seems that some people will not be happy even if they go to one of the "better" regionals.

I'm surprised by the negative comments, sure there are negative things to say about the company, as I'm sure there are about any company. The fact remains that despite all of that, I'm able to go to work and 99% of the time not notice that I work for such a "bad company". If you are worried about yourself and come to work to have a good time then go home, it really isn't as bad as they are saying.



Even the MX reputation isn't correct, I used to hear nightmare stories of MX but I just flew one of our J41's back to the leasor yesterday and there were several old ACA J41's at this place as well. They told me that the Trans States aircraft were in much better shape and taken care of more than the ACA aircraft were. That impressed me alot since ACA was one of those "better" companies to work for.

Anyway, look into it further before you take the advice on so many bitter people. If you are like them, I would say go somewere else because you wont be happy anywere you go and we have enough of that attitude at this company.

Things are gonna get worse at TSA before they get better. Most FOs who have been here less than a year are looking to go somewhere else.

Not true at all, statements like this are not ever backed up by facts. I have heard this from day one, even when we were growing.

 

[Quack]

How far west are you gonna commute from? IMO neither would be a good bet if you are planning on commuting all the way to and from the west coast especially for PDT. You are gonna spend each day off trying to commute all the way to the east coast and back and waste your time off that could be spent with your family. A one leg commute is bad enough, but two legs coast to coast is insane! As for things at PDT, they are finally a little more stable right now with US Air, but that could all change overnight. If you want to stay on the west coast, hold out for Horizon or Skywaste. That commute to the east coast will be from hell.

 

[Pacific]

If you want to deal with a management team that hires off-the-street captains while there are eligible FOs on the property that have been waiting for there chance to upgrade, and a management team that is willing to start an alter-ego such as BlowJets then TSA may be the place for you; if not try somewhere else.

Good luck.

 

[Jbitzer]

go to PDT and get more days off or you can roll the dice and come to TSA and develop an even bigger drinking problem... cheers

 

[jtf]

UEJ500- you just haven't been around long enough for management to screw you as hard as many of those who have spouted out. Actually you have since the entire GJ beast has happened since you've been there. You don't have the opportunity to be the FO or eventually captain on one of those 700s or to upgrade on a 145 sooner if the management hadn't screwed you and everyone else who works or worked at Trans States. Trans States flat out steals from it's employees. I am no longer there and I doubt I'll ever see anything they owe me from any of the grievances like a year of Captain pay from the CQFO debacle or a week of vacation and sick pay that was stolen from all those furloughed out of seniority.

MX isn't as great as you say either. I filled out plenty of Mx logs only to see the problems not fixed correctly- OPs Checked OK doesn't always cut it. The FAA doesn't take a good look until the same thing has been written up 3 times and unfortunately there is too much "on time" pressure on the Captains for them to write things up when they are broken, where they are broken. It's not really the mx departments fault though- they have their hands tied by upper mismanagement and don't have the parts, the time, or the manpower to do what should really be done.

And Trans States is not growing. It is shrinking. The ATRs are gone. The J-41s are almost gone. Don't believe in any more 145s until you seen them on the property with your own eyes. There have been so many promises of new code shares and more equipment that never happen because upper mismanagement screwed it up. And with contract negotiations guarenteeing much hostility soon, why would any more companies choose to start a new code share with an unstable airline- the last 2 year extension got the United deal going. There is constant hiring at Trans States because there is constant turn over. I don't know the size of the current seniority list, but with many fewer airplanes than even a year ago, I can't imagine it is bigger than before.

Now all that said, a job at Trans States beats the crap out of night cargo or instructing. You will have great coworkers and you will be paid while you gain the experience you need to go somewhere better. When I was interviewed the Captain who interviewed my group asked us all why we wanted to work for Trans States. Before he let any of us answer he told us if we lied to him and told him because it is such a good company to work for, then he would most definitely not hire us. He told us he was there to get the experience to go somewhere else (he is somewhere bigger and better now, but it took him a lot longer to escape than he thought it would). I have no idea how upgrade looks at PDT or how they treat their employees. I have no idea how long it would take at Trans States now either and anyone who thinks they know is full of crap. Almost all the regionals now are in a very uncertain position with the massive amounts of whipsawing going on- even by the relatively healthy carriers like Continental threatening to farm out regional flying. Get in wherever you can and get some experience. I would probably choose PDT if both offers came just because I know how I was screwed at Trans States and I don't know what inventive ways PDT management has screwed their pilots. I'm sure they are guilty on many counts, but I have a hard time believing they so blantantly disreguard the pilot contract like Trans States mismanagement so deeply loves to do. Good luck in your career wherever you end up.

 

[jvrac]

PDT does have a commuter clause, but you're looking at a minimum 2 leg commute unless you live in Charlotte, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia or New York. The only major airport we have a crew base at now is LGA and the trips there are mostly one day trips. That means you will be sharing a very expensive crash pad with about 20 plus people. We used to have CLT as a base but that is closing at the end of this month and it was one of the most senior bases we had. I commute from IND and I spend at least half the day commuting to/from work. You will probably spend the whole day commuting to/from work. You'll also be on reserve for a while, since we aren't growing and the only hiring is coming from attrition. Reserves get 10 days off a month.

On the positive side, pay is slightly better than TSA and the health insurance is good. The people out here are nice to work with, and our contract is fairly decent. That's about it. I would have to agree with what others said that if you're going to live on the west coast, look for a west coast airline.

 

[MINIME]

For Trans Staters,

I have a good idea how your management works given their latest actions with the alter ego and all. But I keep hearing the (training events) from lots of the folks overthere. What's the deal? I've even heard from buds that a checkride bust, coming from TSA is soooo common that some airlines may not even hold it agaist candidates when interviewing. No matter what, I think you have to explain those regardless. Does management use training as a tool to get rid of people or to save money? IF these allegations are correct or even somewhat correct, why hasn't your union stepped in to try to remedy the situation? I'm curious cause I hear or read about it just about everytime the name TSA comes up.

Plus, I think that for those considering going to an airline with such problems should take this into consideration. You'd have a big task trying to explain why you busted your first checkride or god forbid, washed out of training all together.

 

[MINIME]

oopps

 

[temcgrew]

MX isn't as great as you say either. I filled out plenty of Mx logs only to see the problems not fixed correctly- OPs Checked OK doesn't always cut it. The FAA doesn't take a good look until the same thing has been written up 3 times and unfortunately there is too much "on time" pressure on the Captains for them to write things up when they are broken, where they are broken. It's not really the mx departments fault though- they have their hands tied by upper mismanagement and don't have the parts, the time, or the manpower to do what should really be done.

I never said the MX is perfect, In fact show me any company that has perfect or near perfect MX. Everyone talks about how we live on the MEL, but that is what it is there for and again, show me an airline that doesn't have MEL items in the can. I was merely pointing out that our J41's were better taken care of than the "better" regional.

Trans States is not growing. It is shrinking. The ATRs are gone. The J-41s are almost gone. Don't believe in any more 145s until you seen them on the property with your own eyes.

I didnt say we were growing, I said that these folks have been saying that things will get worse, while all along we WERE growing.

I'm perfectly happy at Trans States for now. For now being the key word. Of course you should not want to stay here for a career, but for now I'm fine. I'm just one guy with one opinion, and the rest of the bitter crowd can't get over the fact that while they are miserable here, there are some of us working under the same condition that are not miserable.
I have worked for other companies in the past were I wasn't happy and I moved on and got over it. The wierd part is that while I was not enjoying the "privilege" of working for one particular company, there were some who liked the job. Imagine that, diversity of opinion!

Anyway, just to let the guy know, some don't think they have been "screwed" by the company. The whole G0jet thing is a letdown, but I am not personally insulted by it. I don't think the company screwed me, I just think they missed a great opportunity to boost morale and make the company a better place.

 

[Ted_Striker]

Thanks for all the good info....

I'm also curious to know what training is like at both airlines...length of training? paid? free hotel? jumpseat during training? ...anything you guys can share would be great

thanks guys!

 

[flyer172r]

Training took about 2 months at TSA. 60 hours per month at the first year FO rate is the pay during that time. Accomdations are your own responsibility. You can jumpseat after you get your ID, which is usually during the first week. Technically you're only supposed to jumpseat for orientation purposes until after IOE.

 

[jvrac]

At PDT you get paid 4hrs/day at 1st year FO rate, 12hrs of per diem per day, hotel is paid for but it is double occupancy until you make it to sim training. You can jumpseat, but probably only on PDT for a while because they give you this fake looking temporary badge that only we are familiar with. When you get your permanent badge you can jumpseat on whomever you want, but that may take at least a month or more. You can nonrev on US Airways as soon as they get you in the computer system, but that takes 3-4 weeks.

Training itself is extremely intense. We have AQP which is extremely reliant on self study BEFORE you even get to ground school. Let me re-emphasize that. BEFORE YOU EVEN GET TO GROUND SCHOOL. Training takes about 5-6 weeks depending on your simulator schedule. If you get on with PDT, study that training CD like mad as soon as they give it to you.

 

[ceo_of_the_sofa]

I've jumpseated on mainline and offline with the "fake" PDT ID with no problem.
Training is VERY self reliant at PDT.

 

[OPECJet]

I was able to non rev on US within a week of starting class. Went home and mowed the lawn the first weekend.

 

[JohnnyP]

...

Im suprised they let you jumpseat with the "my first airline badge" ID. I think I remember them telling us to not even think about it. And is it now double occupancy until sim? Yikes. We only had double occupancy for one night in SBY, before going to charlottle, then it was suites for all of us at the Morgan.

And about the training, youll get different stories from everyone, ranging from pleasant experiences all the way up to the guys in the TRN dept. trying to go out of their way to make it hard and fail people. Dont rely too much on others tall tales. Go there and experience it for yourself, then make an opinion. I dont remember destroying myself before getting to school, freaking out about the CD they gave us. Just get familiar with whatever they tell you to. From my personal experiences, its been fair and theyll help you out if you need it, and you are putting out effort and holding up your end of the bargin. My recurrent back in Oct, we had Stan, the ALG fella. He was good I thought. No nonsense or fluff, just practical, "this is the way it is" type of ground school. For you that have been here 5+ years, do they ever change the TCAS video or the ethics video (come on, its just a couple batteries, who's gonna notice??), or the CRM video where the british guys shut down the wrong engine?

 

[avl_pilot]

Yeah, my class and the one after us all had to double up until we got to 2 on 1's. Although my only experience at PDT has been with the training dept., from what I've seen the instructors will bend over backwards for you if you have a good attitude. On the flip side of things, if you've got a poor attitude you'll probably going to be meeting Jay soon after arriving in CLT.

By the way my favorite skit on the video was when the guy goes up to the ticket counter and asks for the same fare to Las Vegas that he got last week.

 

[OPECJet]

He asked for that fare because he was broke form buying batteries.

Yes, I'll second that about the training dept. If you have a good attitude and hold up your end of the bargain, they will bend over backwards to help you get through. Act like a moron, and they'll toss you on your can. God bless 'em for it!

I didn't try to jumpseat until I had my permanent ID, but we were able to nonrev from day 1. I did use the jumpseat a couple of times during training to get home, but it was well after I had my permanent ID.

 

[ceo_of_the_sofa]

Attitude is everything! I thought everyone was fair. Although I wish I'd put more studying in before showing up for class. That would've made the first week a little less stressful.
See you guys on the line.

 

[djsk]

If you can wait till Airways 1st quarter numbers come out. If it isn't too red then I would vote Piedmont.

 

[JohnnyP]

....

PDT, a diamond in the rough. Or thats what I tell myself (and so do you guys!!) before i go to bed at night. Along with the public radio station, it helps me get to sleep a little faster.

 

[Ted_Striker]

At PDT you get paid 4hrs/day at 1st year FO rate, 12hrs of per diem per day, hotel is paid for but it is double occupancy until you make it to sim training. You can jumpseat, but probably only on PDT for a while because they give you this fake looking temporary badge that only we are familiar with. When you get your permanent badge you can jumpseat on whomever you want, but that may take at least a month or more. You can nonrev on US Airways as soon as they get you in the computer system, but that takes 3-4 weeks.

Training itself is extremely intense. We have AQP which is extremely reliant on self study BEFORE you even get to ground school. Let me re-emphasize that. BEFORE YOU EVEN GET TO GROUND SCHOOL. Training takes about 5-6 weeks depending on your simulator schedule. If you get on with PDT, study that training CD like mad as soon as they give it to you.

That pay scale seems kinda high to me...especially for training. I figured it up, and assuming that training is at least 5 days a week you would be making about $500 month more than the 72hr guarantee you would have after training!!! Did i do the math wrong, or is that really the way it is?

 

[jvrac]

That's really the way it is! My pay went down as soon as I got on the line.