PCL Captains..

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The AMA doesn't hire doctors, but they wouldn't allow puppy farms to turn out a doctor in 10 months...

Are you a doctor? Is this a doctor forum? the medical profession?

The ABA doesn't hire lawyers, but they wouldn't allow puppy farms to turn out a lawyer in 10 months....

Are you a lawyer? Is this a lawyer forum? The legal profession?

Why doesn't ALPA show some leadership in this area?

Visualize Frank Burns style grown man pouting, whining and crying that the world doesn't think like HE does...

Isn't one of the selling points of ALPA that they are influencial in Wash DC? They don't seem to care much about this issue..... Why not?

As you cry I yawn....

It is both a safety issue and collective bargaining issue..... and ALPA has failed......

No Joe... this is a tactical on site captain mentaility and attitude issue....

But as with you...all of your misery is tied to ALPA...and thus youmust tie everything to ALPA...

 

[Lazy8]

Well now, that whopping 6 months of experience makes you a veteran in the cockpit doesn’t it junior? Look kid, 6 months in the right seat is nothing to crow about, in-fact you are more dangerous now than when you first started cause you think you know everything. Things always seem easier from the right seat.

Let me explain how to survive your first year at an airline. Even if you know how to do something (radios, approaches, whatever), or you’ve been told the 100th time how to do something, your job as an F/O is to smile, thank the CA for his words of wisdom and keep flying. Try being humble and not cocky or over sensitive when given advice, it may save your ass one day.

As a F/O, you have the opportunity to learn from different CA out there. Everybody has a SOP to follow, yet everybody has their unique interpretation of the SOP and their own technique when it comes to flying. By shutting your mouth and opening your eyes you can learn what works and more importantly what doesn’t.

When its your certificate on the line you will feel the same way about pilots like yourself. TIFWIW

Once again I'm not bragging about my own abilities in the flight deck. I know I'm new. I'm still learning a lot. I go into every flight with an open mind and willingness to learn. Sometimes what I learn from captains is what NOT to act/fly like. It's quite difficult sometimes to take a captain seriously that makes up (not interepret differently - make up) policies to support his own flight deck agenda, has zero regard for passenger comfort, flys 9 out of 10 approaches unstable, and all the while is giving me advice while wearing a clip-on tie. Sure, I smile and thank these captains every time and learn a lot from it. I've been surviving my first year just fine.

I think you're completely misreading what I posted, but that's okay. I knew one of the local FI "hotshots" here would come on to reply any second to "set me straight". All I'm saying is it's not necessary for some captains to set such a sh*ty tone right from the get-go. Every guy I've flown with that has been a pissy micromanaging wacko has offered little to learn from except for the fact that I'd rather not fly with 'em again. And trust me - every time I fly with one of these guys I do feel like my certificate is on the line. These are not the kind of people I would want my family flying in the back with during an emergency.

Sure, I'm just a lowly 6-month FO. So what? I still know the difference between someone full of sh*t and someone legitimate.

 

[Lazy8]

The Captains that can't handle the 200TT FO's are the low time Captains themselves and/or Captains that don't have much faith......in themselves....

exactly

 

[sperfly]

and all the while is giving me advice while wearing a clip-on tie.

Why does it have to be a clip on tie thing. I'm going along with and then you have to go and bash the clip on.

 

[Lazy8]

Why does it have to be a clip on tie thing. I'm going along with and then you have to go and bash the clip on.

lol - yeah

Don't get me wrong - some of the best folks I've flown with here wear clip-ons.

It was a clip-on tie that was half out and half in of his collar every day of the trip and the clip was showing. A passenger even asked me, "uhm, is he wearing a clip-on?" - and started laughing. It was just accenting this guy's ridiculousness.

I don't care if you got a clip-on but people shouldn't be able to notice it. That's the point of them isn't it?

 

[BOHICAgain]

Too late for that. As Captain, it is my duty to assume you know nothing. That is the new reality. Like it or not.

That is a total extreme. As a captain I always came into the cockpit giving the FO the benefit of the doubt. By the time we are taxing out I can tell how much work I have to do and how much help I have up there.

 

[PCL_128]

Nope...sorry..... the new reality is guys are upgrading with less and less time. They are gaining more responsibility without the experience...

As you soon as you let the FO know that YOU know they have minimal flight time they turn into intimidated worthless boobs.

Who cares how much flight time they have. If you can't handle a 200TT FO, then bid back to FO yourself. Or call the schoolhouse and tell them you want more sim time, left seat style.

The Captains that can't handle the 200TT FO's are the low time Captains themselves and/or Captains that don't have much faith......in themselves....


You gonna be a tough Captain and call your "weak FO" off the trip.... guess who your replacement will be... your weak FO's Jet U training partner with 400TT.... now you've done it! Good job... you've just double your right seat expierence...


Bring on the new hire FO's....why?

I get to train them right and make them professionals. They are a blank check and I get to determine thier value... The tough part is unbuilding all the negativity that you programed into them....

Exactly!!!

 

[front9]

Sometimes what I learn from captains is what NOT to act/fly like.

Some CA’s do indeed set a good example of what not to do.

It's quite difficult sometimes to take a captain seriously that makes up (not interepret differently - make up) policies to support his own flight deck agenda,

And again your six months of experience gives you the knowledge to differentiate between made up policies and tribal knowledge. I’ve had many F/O’s tell me what I am doing is not SOP only to find out that this is just the way things are done in a particular airport. Ex. Ground operations in ORD once you land, you going to tell the CA to stop so you can contact ground? I’m not quite sure what you mean by flight deck agenda but if it dosent affect the safety of the aircraft or put the rest of the crew in any harm or trouble turn a blind eye & let the CA do his thing, after all it is HIS Ship.

has zero regard for passenger comfort, flys 9 out of 10 approaches unstable, and all the while is giving me advice while wearing a clip-on tie.

I’ve flown with many scary people in my time and have always tried to “assist” the CA when he/she does any of the items mentioned above. However, when trying to correct a CA on his technique always be tactful and respectful even if you don’t respect him.

Sure, I smile and thank these captains every time and learn a lot from it. I've been surviving my first year just fine.

And this is the way it should be, no matter where you are your first year motto needs to be “cooperate and graduate”

I think you're completely misreading what I posted, but that's okay. I knew one of the local FI "hotshots" here would come on to reply any second to "set me straight".

I don’t think I misread your post at all. I was a F/O once and guess what, I feel your pain. I know where you are coming from but in the end, it is YOU who needs to be a chameleon and adapt to whatever the CA wants. Just to give you an example, when I got hired I was the only one out of the six people who interviewed that day and I was damn lucky to get it with my 2000 hours. In contrast, you probably got hired cause you were breathing. Not trying to knock you but putting things into perspective, regionals are desperate right now and will take just about anybody. You are a first year F/O and will be treated as such until you prove your worth in the cockpit. Again your attitude shows that you still need some time to grow up and build a thicker skin.

All I'm saying is it's not necessary for some captains to set such a sh*ty tone right from the get-go. Every guy I've flown with that has been a pissy micromanaging wacko has offered little to learn from except for the fact that I'd rather not fly with 'em again. And trust me - every time I fly with one of these guys I do feel like my certificate is on the line. These are not the kind of people I would want my family flying in the back with during an emergency.

Your peers are the reason some CA’s have to set a Sh!TTy tone right from the start. Some new-hire F/O’s come in with a don’t tell me what to do attitude, unprepared for the flight, and think its cool not to know Sh!t about the airplane or regs. That pissy, micromanaging wacko probably wasn’t always that way, but over time had to adjust, just to survive. And if you think its bad now, just wait till you get to the majors where you will get a CA who will not put up with your Sh!t and run that airplane like he owns it. Luckily, the people you mention only make up about 10% of the pilot population and it sounds like you may have gotten more than your share in the first six months of your career. However, always keep in mind that no matter how bad you don’t like flying with them, they are still your CA and should be treated with the utmost respect. I’m sure when you upgrade you will want the same level of respect from your F/O’s.

Sure, I'm just a lowly 6-month FO. So what?

I rest my case.

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

Let me guess... Was it J.H.? He is known for micro-managing the hell out of you.

I was guessing either him or M.S.

 

[Lazy8]

Some CA’s do indeed set a good example of what not to do.



And again your six months of experience gives you the knowledge to differentiate between made up policies and tribal knowledge. I’ve had many F/O’s tell me what I am doing is not SOP only to find out that this is just the way things are done in a particular airport. Ex. Ground operations in ORD once you land, you going to tell the CA to stop so you can contact ground? I’m not quite sure what you mean by flight deck agenda but if it dosent affect the safety of the aircraft or put the rest of the crew in any harm or trouble turn a blind eye & let the CA do his thing, after all it is HIS Ship.




I’ve flown with many scary people in my time and have always tried to “assist” the CA when he/she does any of the items mentioned above. However, when trying to correct a CA on his technique always be tactful and respectful even if you don’t respect him.



And this is the way it should be, no matter where you are your first year motto needs to be “cooperate and graduate”



I don’t think I misread your post at all. I was a F/O once and guess what, I feel your pain. I know where you are coming from but in the end, it is YOU who needs to be a chameleon and adapt to whatever the CA wants. You are a first year F/O and will be treated as such until you prove your worth in the cockpit. Again your attitude shows that you still need some time to grow up and build a thicker skin.



Your peers are the reason some CA’s have to set a Sh!TTy tone right from the start. Some new-hire F/O’s come in with a don’t tell me what to do attitude, unprepared for the flight, and think its cool not to know Sh!t about the airplane or regs. That pissy, micromanaging wacko probably wasn’t always that way, but over time had to adjust, just to survive. And if you think its bad now, just wait till you get to the majors where you will get a CA who will not put up with your Sh!t and run that airplane like he owns it. Luckily, the people you mention only make up about 10% of the pilot population and it sounds like you may have gotten more than your share in the first six months of your career. However, always keep in mind that no matter how bad you don’t like flying with them, they are still your CA and should be treated with the utmost respect. I’m sure when you upgrade you will want the same level of respect from your F/O’s.

At what point did I say I was disrespectful to a captain? I guess you're just reading in your own captions here. I still don't quite understand why you feel the need to educate me on flight deck behavior that any 121 pilot new or old should practice.

I have no difficulties dealing with certain captains and I treat everyone with the same respect I would want myself. You are taking my comments and putting them into your own past situations which are clearly a lot different. I have my experiences - you have yours. You've been in my shoes, but everybody has a little bit different story to tell. I think it's common knowledge that we should be acting like a professionals regardless of who is sitting next to us. While your advice is good it's completely unwarranted in this entire thread.

Thanks anyway