PCL ALPA Statement on 3701

[Lear70]

Unless the MSA pilot is riding your jumpseat, that pilot is not riding for free. MSA pass riders pay on your airline just as we do at NWA. So, if they are riding for free, they better be saying hi, asking if you'll let them on board, and you should be checking their credentials.

Then you guys have different pass privileges than Pinnacle or Northwest pilots.

A Northwest or Pinnacle pilot with more than 5 years of seniority pass rides for FREE. We simply e-pass list, and no fees are incurred if traveling on any Northwest or Northwest affiliate aircraft. I get guys all the time like this on board, and always verify with the agent that they're pass-riding, not jumpseating.

Lately, ALL of them want to stop by and say hello... especially if they're traveling with family. Sometimes they even ask if I was furloughed from somewhere, which seems to be a roundabout way to ask where else I've worked. Pretty obvious, but I don't mind.

The pilots gave us ample ammunition to say, "Yepp, it's their fault!" close the book, and move on. This course of action would do nothing to improve the ratio of managers to pilots, it would do nothing to improve the training program, it would do nothing to improve the information made available by the manufacturers to the pilots about operating their airplanes and engines at high altitudes, it would do nothing to improve FAA oversight of rapidly expanding flight operations ... nothing would change.

ALPA is looking out for the guys that are still flying these things, and that will fly them in the future. ALL of the mistakes must be examined, and lessons learned from them. If not for ALPA, who would be advocating for pilots? TonyC

Well said. I feel terrible for these pilots and their families, and regardless of the fault of the pilots, there ARE contributing issues, ESPECIALLY from the company, that are in DIRE NEED of fixing, and it's my hope that this event will be the driving force behind that needed change.

 

[banned username 1]

It's certainly a sad situation and regardless of who it was, where it was, the background of the people involved or where they received their training, this totally preventable accident could have been avoided if the crew remembered one of the time-tested and humorous but all-too-true rules of aviation that has kept a lot of people alive: NEVER do something that is prefaced with the statement of "Hey, wanna see something neat?"

Sadly, an unreported contributing factor to this accident: Testosterone

 

[AvroJockey]

Core Lock

I hate to divert the thread from all the lovely bashing and backstabbing going on here... but what's up with the "CF-34 core lock"? I haven't heard of this, what's the story behind it? Also, I know jack squat about systems on the CRJ... are the engine starters pneumatic or electric? I'm wondering why, after they kept trying, they couldn't get a relight. Seems like after that many tries and roughly 18 minutes of glider time an engine should have re-lit.

You've probably read the ALPA bit on turbine engines and core-lock by now, so I'm not going to regurgitate that. However, Wake Gordon (PCL MEC Chairman) makes it sound like this is some mysterious condition isolated to the CL65 engine that no pilot has ever heard of. In fact, all turbine engines have the potential to "core-lock", because almost all compressor casings cool faster than the compressor blades. That's why many turbine aircraft have limitations for idle time after landing, because if you shut down too soon after landing, compressor/turbine blades will rub the core casing as it cools faster. This only happens on ground shutdowns because there's no airflow to continue to drive the compressors at a minimum N2. You must let the engine "cool" down at idle for a while to prevent this.

Seems that stalling a CL65 at FL410 has the same effect, though a little more extreme because of the compressors stalling and stoping completely and almost instantly.

On another note. Though I hate to see pilots bashing pilots, this dialog is probably good for the PCL group. It should motivate them to help make the obvious changes at their company.