Paying for right seat BE-99 time

[GuppyPuppy]

Spoke with a ramper last week in TX who was very excited about paying a certain large Part 135 cargo carrier to sit in the right seat of the Beech 99.

He was convinced that he would be able to build turbine time AND log PIC when he was the sole manipulator. He said, "I can log PIC time in the 99 since it is under 12,500lbs".

At first I thought he was joking. I asked, "Can you even log that time at all? That's a single pilot airplane!". I had to get on the plane and couldn't talk to him much, but I did tell him he should talk with some of his pilot buddies at COEx about the legality of logging any of that time.

I don't know this guy at all except to say that he is a ramper for COEx in IAH.

Can he log this time:

1. At all since it is a single pilot airplane and he is not required by the FAA to be a crewmember? If the insurance requires there be a SIC can he log it, or does the SIC have to be required by the FAA? I know A-FLIGHT can legally fly their 99's single pilot, so what would be the case to even need a SIC on one of their cargo flights?

2. as PIC when he is the sole manipulator of the controls? I know it is not counted as PIC by some airlines unless that pilot is the one who signs for the airplane (which he wouldn't be) (I told him this too!).

I think this pay for SIC time in a single pilot airplane is a bunch of hooey. If some of you ExpressJet guys/gals know this person could you please dissuade him from going this route??? I'll do the same if I see him again.

GP

 

[350DRIVER]

Alpine Air- I laughed when I first saw this years back. When I was offered a position with GLA quite a few people I met came out of this program. Lotsa money for really playing with the radios and being able to put time in a logbook.

At all since it is a single pilot airplane and he is not required by the FAA to be a crewmember? If the insurance requires there be a SIC can he log it, or does the SIC have to be required by the FAA? I know A-FLIGHT can legally fly their 99's single pilot, so what would be the case to even need a SIC on one of their cargo flights?

Insurance reqt's cannot over-ride the ops specs, that pretty much is the determining factor and I am unsure of how the Alpine program is set up. I would assume he "is" required per the ops specs since that is how Alpine seems to sell the program.


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[GuppyPuppy]

Not Alpine....Amflight.

As far as the insurance not being able to override the ops specs...just what I was thinking too!!!

Cheers!

GP

 

[Northern Lights]

A few years ago when I was low on multi time, I talked to Alpine Air at a career fair (he was wearing a captains uniform, minus the hat)...He nearly had me convinced that this was the way for me to go, building right seat time in a 99.

Thankfully I went home that night and took a good look at what it was all about. Pay a load of $$$ to sit right seat in a single pilot airplane, AND you get to load sacks of mail at oh-dark-thirty in Havre, Montana! no thanks.

For a much smaller investment I was able to get my MEI.

 

[350DRIVER]

Amflight I believe is tied into Eagle Jet Intl. out of FL.

For only $21,500 you could fly a 757,727, or Airbus 320/321. If you see him again, tell him to go "BIG".

I always get a kick outta that one. I tried to call to see about "who" this is through and a guy with a deep accent refused to give the information out since he said he needed to "protect the privacy" of the companies. I could only laugh.

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[Big Duke Six]

Ops Specs

I've heard of companies changing their Ops Specs just to accomodate an SIC program, but until then the best that you can do is log it as "Other" time. Even with altered Ops Specs, the big problem is that functionally, they are likely still a single-pilot operation. So, the opportunity for a person to be fully integrated into the cockpit or even learning how to fly the airplane is resting on the kindness and mood of the captain. You may get lucky, or you may hate it.

Broken down by the flight hour, the price looks pretty good. But the time is pretty questionable.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

I used to be a ramper for Alpine Aviation. At the time I was working on my commercial license and they tried to sell me on the program. Back then it was something like $14,000 for 200 hours of right seat time in a BE-99. They kept telling me that that 200 hours of multi-engine turbine is just what I needed to become competetive. Yeah right. Let's see, I'd start out with 250 hours total time, add 200 turbine to that, and end up with 450 total time and still no one would hire me. At the time I didn't know this. As I was pondering this one day while emptying out the garbage I overheard the executives in a meeting talking about how much revenue the company makes from these pay-for-training programs. It sounded like their net profits came directly from these programs, not from their freight contract runs. I wasn't able to finance $14,000 so I ended up getting my CFI, CFII, and MEI. This wasn't nearly as glamorous but was a much better investment for a lot less. Plus the PIC time gained while instructing is tons more usefull than "SIC" time in a BE-99. I've heard all the arguements for allowing SIC time per the Ops Specs. I've even heard the arguements that the POI allowed the copilots to log PIC time. Go figure. To me it's bad flight time even if it is legal to log it. Not even close to worth the $14,000 it would have cost me. My biggest frustration was that those crooks really had me believing that adding those 200 hours of turbine SIC time to my total 250 hours was best for me. At the time Alpine's program was associated with Utah Valley State College's flight program in order for the paying SIC to gain access to financing. It really left a bad taste in my mouth for UVSC's flight program that they would associate themselves with a company promoting such deception. Don't ever let someone trying to sell you something tell you what's best for you.

 

[105viking]

what a good reply about alpine, skywest. it is easy to get suckered in by these guys.

i tell my friends the same thing with regard to getting drawn into training programs that use the same rhetoric. why push to have your 200 hrs multi by the day you take your commercial checkride? my advice for some in that situation, is to get the ratings with the minimum ME, and then with the money you save, buy yourself a nice block of multi when you are actually marketable in terms of your total time. if you do it this way, you might actually be multi current while applying for jobs. IMHO it is better to have 200 hrs of recent experience than 200 hrs two years ago. become a cfi, teach, learn, and build time. it IS a MUCH better investment than alpine of eagle jet int'l.

but hey what do i know, hurry, hurry, hurry, get that "magic" 1200 & 200

regards,
105 viking