Pay rates

[hiflyer731]

OK, I have 4000 hours, 3 type ratings, experience in aircraft sales, 121, 135, and 91 flying along with 18 months in my current job as chief pilot/director of MX on a lear 45 in the los angeles area flying part 91. What would be a typical salary for someone in my current position? Thanks for the input.

 

[ksu_aviator]

OK, I have 4000 hours, 3 type ratings, experience in aircraft sales, 121, 135, and 91 flying along with 18 months in my current job as chief pilot/director of MX on a lear 45 in the los angeles area flying part 91. What would be a typical salary for someone in my current position? Thanks for the input.

There is no typical today. You just have to negotiate the best salary you can and accept that. There are two numbers out there, yours and his. Make him put his on the table first and then negotiate up. There is a point where the pay exceeds your worth, your goal is to reach that point.

If you want some leverage, order a back issue of ProPilot or join NBAA (or both). Use their averages to justify a number.

Your problem is location. Your job is probably worth less than the cost of living + your comfort level. Off the top of my head, I'd say your job is worth between 90 and 120 ish. But, for me, I'd need $150 or more to maintain the lifestyle I'm accustom to here in Texas. Not that you have a choice of moving. Until the job market comes back, you don't have a lot of leverage to negotiate a very high wage.

My best advice is to approach the owner with a reasonable number in mind and accept what you can get...for now. There is a time and a place to walk away, today probably isn't it. Without the ability to walk away, your negotiating power is minimal.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

What would be a typical salary for someone in my current position?

The fact that you are asking this 18 months in to the job is kinda scary....

In reality the sales, type ratings, etc stuff means nothing because you are already doing the job. Also the fact that you do 2 positions says it may likely be a 2 pilot no mechanic job? You may be looking at getting, at best, average Learjet Captain pay for the area? Only you know the quality of your operation. Theres small jet (lear, hawker, citation etc) pilots who make 75K, theres ones that make 200K. There is no norm. Every pilot is a Chief Pilot and every mechanic is a DOM.

I'm in a metro area also and call relate that the NBAA numbers seem a tad low from what I have seen, if you judge by them. Then again, I personally shop QOL over a number. Luckily the 2 often go hand in hand.

The time to negotiate salary is PRIOR to taking all these positions, after that you are usually dead in the water as far as large, meaningful increases in anything.

Pilots are notorious for wanting a job so bad they take it at a rate they truly dont believe will stick and run along under the bizarre mentality that "I will get a large increase after a year or so" "we are looking at a bigger plane" etc etc..It usually leads to frustration (not that this is your situation BTW)

Most large pay increases come with taking the experience and moving up in your career. Nothing wrong with that. If you are their star, they cant live without you type employee you may pull off a large number...there are plenty of guys running single corporate jet departments for nice people and high QOL making 200K or better.

BUT, since you are asking these things now, be prepared to get that deer in the headlights looks if you ask to double your salary because some hokey NBAA salary survey says you should be there....

(but you're already doing the job those type raises dont fit into our corporate structure!)

Good Luck!

 

[Mach88]

I dont know how many years experience as a professional pilot you have but based on your hours, Im guessing less than 5. Therfore, I would say 100K is realistic. Another factor is how much are you making now? If you are only getting 60k, than it will be hard to get 100k. But if you are earning 100k, than 110 or 120k, is reasonable.

 

[FO4life]

Hours of flight time have nothing to do with experience. I just crossed the 4000 hr mark but I have been doing this for 10 years. I don't fly very much but sit alot on the road. Sorry had to chime in.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I dont know how many years experience as a professional pilot you have but based on your hours, Im guessing less than 5. Therfore, I would say 100K is realistic. Another factor is how much are you making now? If you are only getting 60k, than it will be hard to get 100k. But if you are earning 100k, than 110 or 120k, is reasonable.

FO is right...hours mean nothing.

If you get into corporate early on (say 1000hrs?) and fly 250-400hrs a year you can have 10 years PIC experience, many type ratings, International time etc and still have 5000hrs.

In the last 10 years the most I have flown is 350hrs in a year....2-4 of those years were at the 100-175hr area and a few even under 100. Im guessing the average year was just under 200. It just depends on what roles you have and how you are staffed.

Show me a corporate job that runs 4-500+hrs a year and theres a pretty good chance its an understaffed/overworked gig.

 

[SpaceBall 1]

OK, I have 4000 hours, 3 type ratings, experience in aircraft sales, 121, 135, and 91 flying along with 18 months in my current job as chief pilot/director of MX on a lear 45 in the los angeles area flying part 91. What would be a typical salary for someone in my current position? Thanks for the input.

I have been there and done the job you are doing except it was 91/135. Being the wearer of all hats is not an easy job. In the LAX area, I would want $120-$150K. It depends on other benefits with the job. I will assume you are an A&P, but one does not necessarily have to be in order to call yourself a DOM. Do you perform any actual mx on the jet or is it just pushing paper and watching the bills? How much would you have to pay an A&P to perform your portion of the job? There is a leverage point.

If your name is going in the mx logs, you should be compensated for the liability concerns. Believe me, I will not sign my name in any aircraft log unless they pay me well to do so.

Best of luck!

 

[solpilot]

The real question is what salary did you sign up for 18 months ago? If you accepted the job knowing it pays 75K and now you want 150K...probably not gonna happen. But, if you put in a few more years and gradually bump the pay up 10-15K a year, you can eventually make what the job should have paid in the first place. My opinion, 125K plus a nice bonus at the end of each year. I live in SoCal too and the facts are, that's what you have to make just to survive.

 

[fisherpilot]

I have always been told that the pilot with the lowest amount of time at retirement wins!

 

[hiflyer731]

Thanks for all the input!

 

[PilotKitch]

I have always been told that the pilot with the lowest amount of time at retirement wins!

I second that! Also the one that dies with the most debt REALLY wins!

 

[TMMT]

I second that! Also the one that dies with the most debt REALLY wins!

I always thought it was the one who died with the most ex-wives... :erm:

 

[FR8mastr]

Hours of flight time have nothing to do with experience. I just crossed the 4000 hr mark but I have been doing this for 10 years. I don't fly very much but sit alot on the road. Sorry had to chime in.

I am sorry but I must disagree. Mind you my dissenting opinion is no reflection upon any individuals expertise or skill level in any way.

4,10 or 20 thousand hours of flight time is your experience level. Unfortunately one can't count time spent in hotels, or talking and thinking about airplanes as experience. I wish it did, as I would then have type ratings in all kinds of cool aircraft. Not to mention the countless hours I have spend researching and studying war birds, I would be flying for the CAF based on my experience with those wonderful aircraft.

Again this is no reflection upon anyones skill, your 4K is probably much more valuable than another with 10K all spent circling over a traffic pile up, or another with 7K but most of it watching movies in business class as an IRO.
The quality of time is incredibly important, and if I were in a position to hire someone it would be based on that, not total time. It however does not change your level of experience as it relates to TT.
Someone with 2 times your flight time, doing the same job, has more experience. Again not saying its better, just more.

 

[solpilot]

The fact is in corporate aviation, pilots don't get paid according to total flight time or for the most part, seniority. Most are paid to perform a job...and that's it. So, having 4,000 or 400,000 makes no difference. Telling your boss that you deserve more money because your logbook ticker just rolled passed 10,000 hours is not gonna work. It might however, help you find a new job. The point is, in this situation his 4,000 hours have little to do with the amount of money he should be paid.

 

[FR8mastr]

The fact is in corporate aviation, pilots don't get paid according to total flight time or for the most part, seniority. Most are paid to perform a job...and that's it. So, having 4,000 or 400,000 makes no difference. Telling your boss that you deserve more money because your logbook ticker just rolled passed 10,000 hours is not gonna work. It might however, help you find a new job. The point is, in this situation his 4,000 hours have little to do with the amount of money he should be paid.

I agree, if your doing the job you should be paid for it.

I guess I was mixing posts of several with my response.

 

[hiflyer731]

Anybody have the latest NBAA salary figures for a Lear 45 Chief Pilot?