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Pay for Training ???

EagleSumit

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How do regionals view and define "Pay for Training", and is it viewed as a "negative" in an Interview?

Which of the following options would be positive or negative when it comes to building hours to meet hiring requirements for regionals.
- Pay for limited SIC time and get a 135 or 121 Check and
Turbine time?
- Pay for a school with minimum ME/SE time but get
connections to jobs and interviews?
- Pay for a CFI/CFII/MEI and get a lot of Instructor time?
- Pay an Instructor for ME time until meeting Insurance
requirements?
 

bobbysamd

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P-F-T

Let me respectfully suggest that you search the entire board for this subject. You'll get more information and opinions than you can ever use on this highly-controversial issue.

My short answer is if you P-F-T you might engender the enmity of your peers and invite close scrutiny of your abilities and time. You should choose Line 3. As you spend time in this business, you'll learn where to apply for jobs and how to make the contacts you need.

Good luck with your plans.
 

DarnNearaJet

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Considering most regionals had PFT programs in place up until about 3 years ago, I would find it hard to believe that the company would frown upon you paying for training.

That being said, the people sitting across from you may or may not have paid for training at that particular regional, depending on how long they've been there. It's a crapshoot.
 

Speedtree

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Like Bobby said you will find lots of opinions about pay for training. Although I'm a relatively young pilot I do not agree with the principle of the practice but it is easy to see and understand why companies do it.

The decision was easy for me because when the opportunities to pft were there I flat out didn't have the money. It's hard to pay off a $7,500-$10,000 loan when you only will be making 15,000-20,000 a year.

If I was older and had money sitting around the decision would have been harder but I believe in a few rules of life.

Don't compare yourselves with others. Someone always loses and I don't dislike the pilots who paid, I can understand why they did it.

Do what you believe is right and what is best for you. You will never be sorry for making good sound decisions based on fundamental values. The quickest, easiest path is usually not the best one.

Do what is legal . Why pay for some time that you may or may not be able to log legally. Be conservative is my motto.

Do what will be looked favorably upon by the type of companies you work for. Some care about how you got your time, others don't. I would prefer a company that cares, so find out which ones you want to work for and don't be afraid of hard work. One particular regional seemed to prefer flight instructors rather than guys/gals who just flew a twin around. It all depends.

If you make solid decisions time will reward you.

Good luck.
 

FlyinBrian

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I would say that how the company views PFT depends largely upon who is doing the interview. If the interview board is all pilots, I'd say you will likely be subjected to extra scrutiny as a PFT'er. Most pilots in the industry have worked very hard to get where they are and don't take too kindly to kids who think they can buy a job, and the attitude that often comes in with them. Some pilots may be PFT'ers, or may not care that you PFT'd, but it's a gamble with the panel. Often the interview board has an HR representative or some other folks who are not pilots. I would say that they probably don't care if you PFT'd or not.

I guarantee you that if you go in with legitmate flying experience from paid jobs that you got on your merit, and not your credit, nobody will fault you for that, and you won't have to worry about how the interview may or may not feel about PFT.
 

Caveman

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I fly for CMR and we are chock full of pilots that did and did not PFT. Most of the mid-seniority PFT'd. The upper 1/3 of the seniority list and the real junior pilots did not. It's talked about in the cockpit every now and then by all parties. As far as I can tell its a big nonissue. Nobody cares one way or the other. The non PFT senior guys don't hold it against those that did and the ones that did just wish that they hadn't had to spend the money. Fact is the ones that did are pretty much all Captains and all are logging 121 turbine PIC while working for an excellent company. Ethics aside you can't fault them for the effectiveness of their decisions.

Personally, I don't think it's an appropriate practice, but I don't make the rules and neither did those pilots that found themselves in a hiring market that pretty much required PFT at the time. That old adage about walking a mile in the other fellas shoes applies. All the pilots I know that PFT'd are decent folks and excellent pilots.

PFT is like taxes. I hate it and I wish it weren't so. But it is and it sucks and sometimes you just have to pay the piper. Like it or not. I used to think there was no way I'd ever PFT. Today I'm not so sure. Thankfully I didn't have to.
 

manfred33

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As one of those guys that has paid for training, I can't say anything bad about it, other than the pay is just as bad as flight instructing, at first that is. It does get better. I have hardly heard a bad word from any other pilot that I have either flown with or met in my travels about PFT, and I certainly don't foster an attitude about it, cause it isn't worth it. Now, I worked on getting my CFI, so it's not as though I just slapped down the money and did it. I just did not have the heart or motivation for flight instructing- in other words, it wasn't for me. I have a lot of respect for guys that have and do flight instruct. I especially have a great deal of respect for the instructor that put up with my s*** for 8 months and kept on my a** to get me my ratings. I just couldn't do that. I was lucky enough to have the resources to pay for that training and it was with a 121 carrier, so it was a legitimate outfit and I learned a great deal. Imagine going from flying a Seminole to a 2200hp turbo-prop with just 300 hours! I have had three airline interviews since then(I was hired at 2 of those companies), and not one have made any negative comments about my training. And I'm talking about airlines affiliated with the majors. I was just hired at a regional carrier, where I'm going to fly a CRJ, and they actually prefer to hire from the airline where I got my PFT. There are guys out there though that are totally against PFT and think that you haven't paid your dues and will give you attitude about it, but I think that those guys are very closed minded and maybe are just a little envious that they didn't do the same thing. In the end, all we really want to do is just fly. I think that you should go with what you think is the best for you and not worry about what every one else thinks, because, as somebody else already said, most guys just don't care how you got your training, just as long as you can fly.
 

chperplt

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I was just hired at a regional carrier, where I'm going to fly a CRJ, and they actually prefer to hire from the airline where I got my PFT
Which airline likes hiring Gulfstream PFTers?

Imagine going from flying a Seminole to a 2200hp turbo-prop with just 300 hours!
That's 2200 total HP.. 1100 per side, right?
 

manfred33

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That's 2200 total HP.. 1100 per side, right?

Yup, aprrox. Actually closer to 2300, 1178 per side. If I remember correctly.
 

chperplt

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Yup, aprrox. Actually closer to 2300, 1178 per side. If I remember correctly.
I guess that depends on if you're flying your B/C or D 1900....
 

manfred33

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You're right, of course. I meant the B/C models, since those were the first turbo-props I flew.
 

FR8mastr

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Don't underestimate the resentment that selling your soul for a job will bring you. One of the main reasons regional pilots are looked upon as lessor pilots by some, is just that. It also accounts for the majority of the terrible working conditions and horrible pay! Why should Mgmt. pay me a respectable wage when skygod jr. comes along and offers to pay management for the same position. Think about it!!! What the buy your job wonderboys have done to this industry will be felt for years to come, and if it starts again god help us all. The end does not justify the means, don't these people have any self respect?
The reason you would not see conflict in the cockpit is easy, you can be disciplined or worse for causing that kind of trouble. And also when you go to work with a new guy you generally don't want to rock the boat so you just don't talk about it. especially if you don't know what the other did to get there. You know it's in the past cant change it now so just let it go. If it starts again you will see some major resentment!!
 
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