Pay for training at Banner tow jobs.
- Thread starter qwerty
- Start date
Unfortunately so
I paid for the training but I only spent 300. I made it back in a month though. Most of these guys are really hurting since they've been shut down for months and they have plenty of pilots to choose from. I had 350TT and a commercial ticket. My choice was spend the money for the banner tow training or spend the money for a CFI. I did banner towing on the weekends part time, 6 to 8 hours a day. I don't think I could get that much time instructing part time.
WHere are you looking to tow?
I paid for the training but I only spent 300. I made it back in a month though. Most of these guys are really hurting since they've been shut down for months and they have plenty of pilots to choose from. I had 350TT and a commercial ticket. My choice was spend the money for the banner tow training or spend the money for a CFI. I did banner towing on the weekends part time, 6 to 8 hours a day. I don't think I could get that much time instructing part time.
WHere are you looking to tow?
LR25
Its just a vintage VW
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I dont see any reason in the world to give someone a 1K to train to tow banners.
When I started along time ago (7-8 yrs) I went around for a couple of dry runs and then picked one up with the guy who was checking me out and the next banner I flew I was on my own.
Now granted, that might be a little off of the norm. But I cant see if you spent a bunch of time flying in circles in the pattern and picking a few up that it would cost a thousand.
I think someone wants to make a little money off you.
If you don't mind, what are they saying is a starting pay.
Oh yea, I don't want to bad mouth any particular operation but, I did here from a couple of people on this board that there was a place in FL that was taking peoples money and then telling them to hit the road.
Do some research and be careful.
LR25
When I started along time ago (7-8 yrs) I went around for a couple of dry runs and then picked one up with the guy who was checking me out and the next banner I flew I was on my own.
Now granted, that might be a little off of the norm. But I cant see if you spent a bunch of time flying in circles in the pattern and picking a few up that it would cost a thousand.
I think someone wants to make a little money off you.
If you don't mind, what are they saying is a starting pay.
Oh yea, I don't want to bad mouth any particular operation but, I did here from a couple of people on this board that there was a place in FL that was taking peoples money and then telling them to hit the road.
Do some research and be careful.
LR25
When I was towing Banners in Myrtle Beach, in 97 I paid for the training. I forgot how much it was, but I got an endorcement out of it, good for any FSDO's waiver requirments. I looked at it like this: I'm not buying a job, I'm buying the training for a logbook endorcement. Similar to a complex or tailwheel endorsment. Since I left Myrtle Beach, I went to work for two other banner operators and was not charged anything, because I already had my endorsment, and the local FSDO put me on the waiver without a problem.
If you are serious about draging rags, PM me, and I'll recommend a couple fo companies to you.
If you are serious about draging rags, PM me, and I'll recommend a couple fo companies to you.
What endorsement?
Towing banners is not rocket science. My first banner tow was the one I used to certify a new start-up banner company, in front of the FAA. It wasn't dificult, dangerous, and didn't require special training. Paying someone a thousand dollars to learn to tow a banner or get a signature in a logbook is like paying someone a thousand bucks to learn how to vacum a carpet. Pointless to the degree of being comical.
Just how many hours does an employer plan on training you to pick up banners? One or two pickups and drops, and you have it down cold. For a thousand bucks, you could do hundreds of pickups. Utterly ridiculous.
Buying the opportunity to work in the industry? Give us all a break! Anybody can tow a banner; it's relatively mindless work, if it can be called work. Companies that charge pilots to learn how to pick up a banner are either picking on those who don't know they can get a job without buying it, or those who simply can't. The banner tow community isn't exactly tight-knit, and there is no requirement among operators to see a pilot with hours and years of former banner experience, and endorsements and signatures. Just pick the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** thing up and tow it.
Towing banners is not rocket science. My first banner tow was the one I used to certify a new start-up banner company, in front of the FAA. It wasn't dificult, dangerous, and didn't require special training. Paying someone a thousand dollars to learn to tow a banner or get a signature in a logbook is like paying someone a thousand bucks to learn how to vacum a carpet. Pointless to the degree of being comical.
Just how many hours does an employer plan on training you to pick up banners? One or two pickups and drops, and you have it down cold. For a thousand bucks, you could do hundreds of pickups. Utterly ridiculous.
Buying the opportunity to work in the industry? Give us all a break! Anybody can tow a banner; it's relatively mindless work, if it can be called work. Companies that charge pilots to learn how to pick up a banner are either picking on those who don't know they can get a job without buying it, or those who simply can't. The banner tow community isn't exactly tight-knit, and there is no requirement among operators to see a pilot with hours and years of former banner experience, and endorsements and signatures. Just pick the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** thing up and tow it.
I have to agree with LearAv8r here,
There is actually a lot to towing a sign, keeping it readable from the ground, the aircraft I was flying where all highly modified. J-3 fuselage with super cub tail, wing extetions, leading edge cuffs, two sets of stall fences VG's on wings and tails, and 180 to 235 HP lycs. Also towing signs up to and including 70' X 110'
If you put someone in one of those airplanes, and hook them up to a sign that size without proper training, One of three things will happen.. They will rip the sign on pick-up, when they feel the jerk of a sign that large they will kick it loose, or they will get to slow at the top of the pick up, and enjoy a little stall spin at 200'. I've seen it happen and drug the body out of the airplane.
So small signs, with mostly stock airplanes is one thing that may not require a whole lot of training. But it also doesn't make a whole lot of money. So, if you are doing to tow for a stable company, with good contracts, you are going to be flying big signs in modified aircraft. So you need the training. And having the endorsement makes it easy for the local FSDO to add you to a waiver.
There is actually a lot to towing a sign, keeping it readable from the ground, the aircraft I was flying where all highly modified. J-3 fuselage with super cub tail, wing extetions, leading edge cuffs, two sets of stall fences VG's on wings and tails, and 180 to 235 HP lycs. Also towing signs up to and including 70' X 110'
If you put someone in one of those airplanes, and hook them up to a sign that size without proper training, One of three things will happen.. They will rip the sign on pick-up, when they feel the jerk of a sign that large they will kick it loose, or they will get to slow at the top of the pick up, and enjoy a little stall spin at 200'. I've seen it happen and drug the body out of the airplane.
So small signs, with mostly stock airplanes is one thing that may not require a whole lot of training. But it also doesn't make a whole lot of money. So, if you are doing to tow for a stable company, with good contracts, you are going to be flying big signs in modified aircraft. So you need the training. And having the endorsement makes it easy for the local FSDO to add you to a waiver.
Why am I wrong? Enlighten me. Tell me how complicated banner towing is, how technical it is. I'd like to know.
I could have used that information when I started and ran an aerial advertising operation years ago; it would have been useful to know how really complicated it was. I guess I missed it.
Since it's so obvious that I don't have the experience, I'll burn that logbook, too. It was probably all imagined, anyway.
I could have used that information when I started and ran an aerial advertising operation years ago; it would have been useful to know how really complicated it was. I guess I missed it.
Since it's so obvious that I don't have the experience, I'll burn that logbook, too. It was probably all imagined, anyway.
Here's why I think you're wrong.
250 to 300 hour pilots who've been flying Cessna's straight and level getting into tailwheel equipment, flying 15' above the ground to snag the tow line and:
1. Picking it up with the main gear
2. Stalling at the stop of the climb at 100' AGL
3. Not recognizing when the banner is hung on the ground and pulling you down. (when to release)
4. Unable able to climb on a hot day with a heavy rag (ie: not realizing you need to spiral climb)
5. flying at VS +2 at 500AGL for 3 hours at a time
These are just some of the things that face a new banner tow pilot. I'm not saying it's rocket science but it does take some training and some people just don't cut it...in fact I'd say 2/3 to a half of the people I've seen try at my former operation couldn't cut it. Not used to flying low and slow and pitching up 60 degrees or so and leveling off just before stalling.
However, It shouldn't take anyone more 3 or 4 hours and a couple hundred. If someone said expect to pay $1000 I'd go somewhere else.
250 to 300 hour pilots who've been flying Cessna's straight and level getting into tailwheel equipment, flying 15' above the ground to snag the tow line and:
1. Picking it up with the main gear
2. Stalling at the stop of the climb at 100' AGL
3. Not recognizing when the banner is hung on the ground and pulling you down. (when to release)
4. Unable able to climb on a hot day with a heavy rag (ie: not realizing you need to spiral climb)
5. flying at VS +2 at 500AGL for 3 hours at a time
These are just some of the things that face a new banner tow pilot. I'm not saying it's rocket science but it does take some training and some people just don't cut it...in fact I'd say 2/3 to a half of the people I've seen try at my former operation couldn't cut it. Not used to flying low and slow and pitching up 60 degrees or so and leveling off just before stalling.
However, It shouldn't take anyone more 3 or 4 hours and a couple hundred. If someone said expect to pay $1000 I'd go somewhere else.
I hope nobody's pitching up 60 degrees following a banner pickup. A positive rate of climb is all that's needed; the more positive, the better, but there is no reason to perform any unusual or exotic maneuvering during a pickup.
Most all the pilots we used to tow banners had fresh commercial certificates, or were new flight instructors. Never a problem. Their first training flight was their first pickup to do an actual tow, and I only ever saw one person have a problem. That was during certification runs when we were expanding the number of letters we were allowed to carry, and when we exceeded the capability on one proving pickup, we dropped the banner with no event.
I started flying commercially at age 18 with 250 hours, crop dusting, and really don't see that picking up banners is that big of a challenge for a pilot who is supposed to be able to perform to commercial standards. If I can do it, anybody can.
Most all the pilots we used to tow banners had fresh commercial certificates, or were new flight instructors. Never a problem. Their first training flight was their first pickup to do an actual tow, and I only ever saw one person have a problem. That was during certification runs when we were expanding the number of letters we were allowed to carry, and when we exceeded the capability on one proving pickup, we dropped the banner with no event.
I started flying commercially at age 18 with 250 hours, crop dusting, and really don't see that picking up banners is that big of a challenge for a pilot who is supposed to be able to perform to commercial standards. If I can do it, anybody can.
In our operation the airport boundary constraints required gaining as much altitude in as short a distance as possible. So as much as 60 degrees was common and it was fun. In addition we typically towed nylon billboards from 4000 to 5500 square feet. Without a steep climb the banner was ripped off the ground so fast it ripped the nylon.
Picking up letters wasn't as much of a challenge.
Picking up letters wasn't as much of a challenge.