pay for job negatives?

[Mazdarx7]

Do airlines really look down on you when you do the pay for job thing? Ie, pay 12K for 500 hours multi, 135 checkout, etc...fly night and actual like the first officer programs sometimes advertised? I would think that if you had like 800 TT, 500 mULTI, with the majority at night/imc you would look pretty good? Any thoughts?

 

[Lazy8]

Here's the short and sweet. Don't.

g

 

[Turkey Shoot]

Management loves that sort of thing. Means you don't have a backbone. Just the sort to bend to their will to pay as little as possible. But you don't have to work with management, you have to work with other pilots who will look down on you.

 

[barracuda]

It works for a lot of guys. Respect from fellow pilots however? Not so much.

Good luck.

 

[:-)]

Airline managers will just LOVE ya. TurkeyShoot is correct. Management loves PFT'rs because they come to the job properly undressed; management doesn't even have to ask you to drop trou before they give you the shaft.

Seriously, buying a job only hastens the overall drop to the bottom that pilot pay is experiencing. Go ahead and buy a job, but don't expect to ever see $300 an hour as long as people are willing to do as you did and work for nothing.

Think about it.

 

[wmuflyguy]

If you are in a hurry, go buy 100 hours of multi, you can get it for 5k. Do some instructing, you could be someplace in a year.

This is prolly flaim bate anyway.

 

[EMB Skillz]

Do airlines really look down on you when you do the pay for job thing? Ie, pay 12K for 500 hours multi, 135 checkout, etc...fly night and actual like the first officer programs sometimes advertised? I would think that if you had like 800 TT, 500 mULTI, with the majority at night/imc you would look pretty good? Any thoughts?

It is just fine to do that. You will gain valuable experience and make yourself more marketable. These people get angry because they did it the hard way and didn't think of a better idea first. They refer to it as "Paying your Dues", and think that everybody who doesn't do it their way is not worthy. The reality is, when you go for a job, nobody is going to disqualify you. In fact, you will be chosen over some MEI who flies circles around the practice area. Remember, seniority is everything, you don't want to waste time and get stuck in the right seat forever. Also, when you are flying the line, nobody will have the ballz to say anything to you for choosing a first officer program. So, go ahead, get your skillz on and go get that jet job. Good luck!

 

[dardar]

Also, when you are flying the line, nobody will have the ballz to say anything to you for choosing a first officer program. quote]

I've always wondered about this. Does anyone actually say anything to Gulfstreamers? I know I wouldn't. You have to spend 4 days with the person, so don't get pissy with them.

And PFJ? I personally have nothing against it. Probably because I did PFJ. I had around 1000 Total and 26 Multi and I was an MEI. I looked into flying freight but to be PIC places told me they wanted more multi. Insurance also sayed I had too little time to instruct in the Twin that my FBO had (it wasn't ever flown anyways).

So it looked like I had to suck it up and buy some multi time. As long as I was going to buy some time I might as well get instrument proficient and learn how to handle a real airplane. It was cheaper than sharing a twin with someone else and I moved on to jets when I was done. I never took anyones job doing it either. If I wasn't there, the thing would be flown single pilot.

It sounds like you are considering skipping CFIing. Not a good choice. CFIing sucks, but you learn a lot; most importantly how to be PIC. Also, don't bank on anyone taking you with 800TT. CFI for a while and if you don't have the multi, then I don't think it's a bad way to get the time.

 

[Lazy8]

It is just fine to do that. You will gain valuable experience and make yourself more marketable. These people get angry because they did it the hard way and didn't think of a better idea first. They refer to it as "Paying your Dues", and think that everybody who doesn't do it their way is not worthy.

How silly of me. After spending 35k on flight training why didn't I think of putting down another 20k to jump into some shadey "Honest Bob's Be a Airline Pilot in 6 Months" operation and get hired on somewhere that pays less than 19k a year. Yes, it's simply is the 'better idea'. Why didn't I think of this 'better idea' first with all these flashy ads for PFT. I mean, even though I make more "the hard way" as an instructor vs. any first year FO I simply am just conforming to the general pilot mentality in the industry. Some of us actually have to plan ahead and save up for entry into the regional airline/cargo world.

People have a problem with this because it has a negative impact on the payscales, not because they did it the 'hard way'. When a first year FO is making less than the first year flight attendant onboard then something is very wrong. PFT isn't completely to blame, but it certainly doesn't help.

g

 

[VSI9k+]

airlines may not care...but pilots do

 

[The_Russian]

I've always wondered about this. Does anyone actually say anything to Gulfstreamers? I know I wouldn't. You have to spend 4 days with the person, so don't get pissy with them.

What would you have to say? Oh! I forgot. You would say something completely uneducated and unprofessional. Something undeserved and considered "in poor taste". The stigma only exists on this website and it is spread outside by people who know nothing about us.

 

[waka]

It is just fine to do that. You will gain valuable experience and make yourself more marketable. These people get angry because they did it the hard way and didn't think of a better idea first. They refer to it as "Paying your Dues", and think that everybody who doesn't do it their way is not worthy. The reality is, when you go for a job, nobody is going to disqualify you. In fact, you will be chosen over some MEI who flies circles around the practice area. Remember, seniority is everything, you don't want to waste time and get stuck in the right seat forever. Also, when you are flying the line, nobody will have the ballz to say anything to you for choosing a first officer program. So, go ahead, get your skillz on and go get that jet job. Good luck!

Listen you little g-dog wannabe. Anytime a more qualified person gets passed over because a less qualified person was willing to write a check for his/her job, that is unprofessional. It is obvious that you don't know the first thing about professionalism.

Look at Gulfscam. The idiot suckers that lay out $18,500.00 (or whatever it is now) is paying more in the "pay per view" program to sit in the right seat for 250 hours than if a passenger flew 250 hours in the cabin. That's pretty pathetic.

Check in when you grow up.

 

[VSI9k+]

It is just fine to do that. You will gain valuable experience and make yourself more marketable. These people get angry because they did it the hard way and didn't think of a better idea first. They refer to it as "Paying your Dues", and think that everybody who doesn't do it their way is not worthy. The reality is, when you go for a job, nobody is going to disqualify you. In fact, you will be chosen over some MEI who flies circles around the practice area. Remember, seniority is everything, you don't want to waste time and get stuck in the right seat forever. Also, when you are flying the line, nobody will have the ballz to say anything to you for choosing a first officer program. So, go ahead, get your skillz on and go get that jet job. Good luck!

Sure...you are going to learn a ton from some guy sitting in the left seat that does not even want you there in the first place. EMB says its ok because EMB most likely did it. If they need someone to sit in the right they should pay someone to sit there...even if it isnt much. Dont fly for free...and NEVER pay to fly.

 

[F9 Buff]

Someone should notify the feds about those Gulfstream 1900s that have 20 pax on it without a F/A... Breaking the regs every flight, every day.

 

[Pantherjon]

Someone should notify the feds about those Gulfstream 1900s that have 20 pax on it without a F/A... Breaking the regs every flight, every day.

That's cause those are 'pilots' not passen, errr pax..Ya see, they take 'em up then they rotate in and out of the cockpit to gain that valueable flight time that they have so generously mortgaged their life away to do.


Dont mind me..I dont have a clue..I am just being very tongue in cheek here..No need to flame me fer it, but I do have a fire suit, and no I haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn in over 3 years..lol

 

[FN FAL]

Pay for training is proof that smart people can find a legitimate means to extract money from affluent persons.

 

[Fugawe]

Pay for tng, buy lottery tickets, go to the track, laugh at investing, live for the moment, drink beer with ugly women, pee on electric fences, believe OJ.........all the same.

Fugawe

 

[PCL_128]

I've always wondered about this. Does anyone actually say anything to Gulfstreamers?

Nope.

 

[mcjohn]

I was wondering when a new PFT thread was going to pop up.

I'm anti-PFT but I'm not the type to really care what others do. However, steer clear of Gulfstream please. It just makes no sense to have a FO pay over 30g (yes, the price continues to climb) to sit in the right seat. First of all it is a required crew position. It says something about a company that does this with a "required" crew position. Second of all, it is an airline. There are people on board. These aren't boxes. The FO is "required" for a reason.

Now, if you insist on PFT, do it with a cargo carrier that does not require a FO. There are more than a few out there.

One unconditional thing about PFT, it is a waste of money. You can save a lot of cash building time at Ari-Ben or similar, and become instrument proficient as well.

Also, if you're close to 1200TT start looking at Flight Express, Ram Air, Ameriflight to get paid to upgrade quickly to a twin.

 

[mcjohn]

Who care if anyone says anything to Gulfstreamers??!!

There is an important word here that really matters:

ETHICS