Pay for Jeppeson Charts?

[hudsonhawk]

Is it standard for a company to make their pilots pay for their own subscription to Jeppeson. The cost is around $323. I heard that Ameriflight makes their pilots pay this. Has anyone else had to pay. Thanks!!

 

[buckdanny]

Yes they do. It sucks, but that's the way it goes if you want to work here. It's tax deductible though. Oh and they treat us like slaves too. Good luck brother, I feel your pain. I'm outta here in 4 weeks!!!



Buck

 

[FracCapt]

That's been going on at AMF for many, many years. I worked there back in '97 and they required it then. Luckily, I was in the aircraft that had charts supplied(Metros, Beech 1900s, and Lears all had full US charts). We still got stuck doing the updates though....unless we happened to have an FO to do 'em. It was the least they could do since we had to babysit them in the airplane....it kept 'em busy for a few legs each month.

At AMF, if you're based anywhere out west, you have to supply your charts. Stupid, but true. People are willing to do it, so they won't change that requirement. For some reason, they supply all the charts when you get east of Arizona/Utah area(I think that's about the right area). You need to get out to Texas or CVG to really avoid it. I think CVG is all Metros and Beech 1900s(it was when I was there), but Texas has everything from the Navajos on up.

 

[hudsonhawk]

No leather binders!

Thanks for the input guys. I sucked it up and got the subscription for the western states. I decided not to go with the premium, cushy leather binders though. Plastic will be just fine for cargo. I am excited to start with Amflight. I only wish they would help with more of the initial costs.

 

[TundraT]

I don't know about you guys but FAR 135.83 States

(a)The operator of an aircraft must provide the following materials, in current and appropriate form, accessible to the pilot at the pilot station and the pilot shall use them:

(1) A cockpit checklist
(2) ya da ya da ya day
(3) Pertient aeronautical charts.
(4) For IFR operations, each pertient navitional en route, terminal area, and approach and let down chart.
etc.
I would sure hate to be the operator who would have a NASIP inspection and find that several aircraft through the operation did not have current charts. At over $10000 fine for each take off and landing the operator would be better off to pay for the subscription then rely on several dozen knucklehead pilots.

I don't know whether it is worth falling on your sword over this one but the regulation are pretty clear.

 

[buckdanny]

Hudson,

What base and a/c are you getting? Are you in the next ground school? I bought my binders on e-bay for $35, and they are leather. E-bay is a good way to get nice stuff for cheap. Just a thought!

Buck

 

[FracCapt]

I don't know about you guys but FAR 135.83 States

(a)The operator of an aircraft must provide the following materials, in current and appropriate form, accessible to the pilot at the pilot station and the pilot shall use them:

(1) A cockpit checklist
(2) ya da ya da ya day
(3) Pertient aeronautical charts.
(4) For IFR operations, each pertient navitional en route, terminal area, and approach and let down chart.
etc.

I don't know whether it is worth falling on your sword over this one but the regulation are pretty clear.

Yep, the regs are very obvious in this regard...unfortunately, so is the letter from their POI that absolves them of the responsibility of providing charts and ensuring they are current...the burden falls on the pilots. It's a dirtbag operation in a nice suit, that's all.

 

[Super_Cub_2414P]

Why don't you use noaa charts like most freight dogs?

 

[StarChecker]

Yes they do. It sucks, but that's the way it goes if you want to work here. It's tax deductible though. Oh and they treat us like slaves too. Good luck brother, I feel your pain. I'm outta here in 4 weeks!!!



Buck

Geeeeezus...sounds like a great place to work.... . Use NOS charts....at least AirNet provided them.

 

[hudsonhawk]

Buck

Thanks for the advice. To answer your question, I start ground school this month in Burbank. I am not sure which plane or base I will receive. Where are you off to after Amflight? Do you enjoy working there? My reason for going to Amflight is to build the coveted 1000 hours PIC turbine. After that, who knows. I would like to fly for FED-EX or UPS but that's a long shot.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Holy crap!!!! I would work shoveling horse dung before I would buy charts to fly for an underpaid overworked freight outfit!!!!!!!!


No wonder the regionals have no problem filling seats at 18k a year!!!! At least they buy the charts!


I have heard it all now.

 

[falcon20driver]

Christ, the FedEx feeder that I flew Caravans for paid for my Jepp subscription, now I really know what brown stands for.

 

[buckdanny]

No wonder the regionals have no problem filling seats at 18k a year!!!! At least they buy the charts!

No offence, but it is not underpaid as you may think it is. I was actually making more in the Lance than first year pay at the majority of the regionals!!! And now I'm going to the Chieftain I will be making a little more too. We even get paid during training too, unlike again some regionals... I agree the chart issue is a problem though. Unfortunately it is company policy for us to get Jepps... Otherwise I'd definitely use NOS.

Ameriflight is one of the best 135 in the country, there is no doubt. Personally I am frustrated over some personal issues, and it is the main reason I can't wait to bail. That only regards me though. If you want to know some of them see my thread from 3 days ago. If you want to know more feel free to PM me.

Buck

 

[buckdanny]

Christ, the FedEx feeder that I flew Caravans for paid for my Jepp subscription, now I really know what brown stands for.

Everything is relative. At the layover, I get to rest in a 2 bedroom apartment with fitness center, pool, and spa. To get there I have a crew car (brand new 4 door ford focus) waiting for me when I land. All of this provided by the company. There is a Fedex caravan going to that airport too, that stays all day there as well. The pilot hangs out at the FBO, or sleeps in the airplane. Not cool when it's 110 outside. Maybe it was different at your feeder, but that's how it is for those guys here... Personally I would rather pay for my jepps and have that kind of comfort at the layovers. Can't have everything I guess.

Buck

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I don't know about now, But I never saw a freight hauler that was not underpaid for what you do. At least not when I was humping a Baron around for a 1000 hours a year in the dead of night. That is about 10 years ago though (Man.......I am getting OLD!!!!!!!!)


Fun memories though.......If I block out the engine failures, radio failures, complete electrical failures, gear failures, ice(No boots), Monster thunderstorms with a broken radar, and eating Ramen Noodles 5 times a week!! (TV dinner the other 3 when I splurged.

On the plus side I learned more about IFR flying there than I did at a Corporate gig and two airlines since then.

You are now at the peak of your IFR skills, once you go 121 it is all down hill from there. "The flight director is acting up???????? How are we supposed to fly now!!?? Enjoy your next gig, especially when the CFI training with you in the sim is freaking out, and you are thinking......Whats this tools problem...its only 200 and a half, barely worth shooting an ILS.

 

[Rick1128]

Jepps

Tundra, the biggest complaint I have always had about company supplied Jepps was that the flight crews don't keep them current and don't do the annual checklists. At least when I had my own charts I KNEW what state they were in. Personally I prefer to use Jepps, but NOS are easier to update and cheaper.

 

[OneMotorFokker]

Ameriflight

Ameriflight is not a bad place to work. There are several drawbacks though like not being able to jumpseat and having to pay for your own charts. But bhe experience you get here will stay with you for the rest of your career. Companies know that a pilot who works for ameriflight can make it through difficult training, put up with an unusual schedule and fly in all conditions single pilot. Come here, get your time in and move on. The company doesn't expect you to stay forever and the most you'll want to do is probably a couple of years before you move on.

 

[fokkers&beer]

At least you guys had radar in your barons, even if it only worked sometimes.

 

[Wasted]

I don't know about you guys but FAR 135.83 States

(a)The operator of an aircraft must provide the following materials, in current and appropriate form, accessible to the pilot at the pilot station and the pilot shall use them:

(1) A cockpit checklist
(2) ya da ya da ya day
(3) Pertient aeronautical charts.
(4) For IFR operations, each pertient navitional en route, terminal area, and approach and let down chart.
etc.
I would sure hate to be the operator who would have a NASIP inspection and find that several aircraft through the operation did not have current charts. At over $10000 fine for each take off and landing the operator would be better off to pay for the subscription then rely on several dozen knucklehead pilots.

I don't know whether it is worth falling on your sword over this one but the regulation are pretty clear.

They will tell you in indoc that your pay includes an allowance for the charts. So they are actually in full compliance.

 

[SpiffAV8]

Wasted

They will tell you in indoc that your pay includes an allowance for the charts. So they are actually in full compliance.

True they do say that. Yet the pilots out of DFW and CVG make the same amount as everyone else. The bad part about the Jepps out of those bases is that they are falling apart and are not always up to date. I don't even want to think about how it would be if the comapny put a set in every airplane! I am sure that is why the company chose to go the route they did. Nor can I blame them. It has been an on going issue when it comes down to the pay part. Honestly, I don't mind having my own set of charts. At least I know they are up to date, in good shape and they are never missing.

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

In regards to the comment that our pay includes an "allowance for charts". Considering that the DFW & CVG guys get their charts supplied, does that mean they should get a pay cut?

 

[StarChecker]

They will tell you in indoc that your pay includes an allowance for the charts. So they are actually in full compliance.

That is the biggest pile of horse$hit I've ever heard. If that's any indication of how they treat their pilots...I'd move on.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I would say, based on what I've read, my cargo company is a lot better. While it's not SWA, it's all relative.

My co. pays for the Jepps (1 set for the small airplanes, 2 for the big ones) and they keep them in the aircraft (we need all the US, Canada, and Latin America-so it's a lot to carry around). We even pay two guys to keep the Jepps updated-and give them extra help when we can.

The pay is pretty good, and the schedule is decent (28 days, 10 days off for the little guys, 12 for the bigger guys).

Cliff
DTW
USA Jet Airlines

 

[Texan Driver]

There is a Fedex caravan going to that airport too, that stays all day there as well. The pilot hangs out at the FBO, or sleeps in the airplane. Not cool when it's 110 outside. Maybe it was different at your feeder, but that's how it is for those guys here... Personally I would rather pay for my jepps and have that kind of comfort at the layovers. Can't have everything I guess.

Buck

Wow...wonder what company that is...the FedEx Feeder I work for buys my Jepps and puts me up in a hotel room.

 

[CorpLearDriver]

When I started with Cal Air (Predicessor to Ameriflight) in 1985, we actually had per diem. One of the things you were being paid this for included the purchasing of charts. The other thing I remember was, you had a choice of using NOS or Jepp Charts. I don't recall when or if it changed. It did not matter since I had always used and prefered Jepps over NOS (though NOS has improved some over the years) and already had my own F-5 coverage of the west.

Later, the did away with per diem and increased the pay to compensate for it. But they always stated that as part of your pay you were expected to supply the charts needed to complete your trips. In the Learjets, there was full U.S. Coverage yes, but it wasn't just the copilot that had to file them. We worked as a crew and I can remember man night crossing the country doing the blasted annual checklist.....Jepp View please.....

I don't know about you guys but FAR 135.83 States

(a)The operator of an aircraft must provide the following materials, in current and appropriate form, accessible to the pilot at the pilot station and the pilot shall use them:

I would sure hate to be the operator who would have a NASIP inspection and find that several aircraft through the operation did not have current charts. At over $10000 fine for each take off and landing the operator would be better off to pay for the subscription then rely on several dozen knucklehead pilots.

I don't know whether it is worth falling on your sword over this one but the regulation are pretty clear.

 

[JetBlast2000]

Hi!

I would say, based on what I've read, my cargo company is a lot better. While it's not SWA, it's all relative.

My co. pays for the Jepps (1 set for the small airplanes, 2 for the big ones) and they keep them in the aircraft (we need all the US, Canada, and Latin America-so it's a lot to carry around). We even pay two guys to keep the Jepps updated-and give them extra help when we can.

My company pays as well. However, I've got to file the plates myself. Doing the entire US can take awhile. I just make sure I file them when I get them in. Sometimes that’s difficult when you’re on the road.

I've not heard too many great things about Am Flight. Just do your time and move on... Sometimes it's easier than complaining.

JB2k