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pax flying armed

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Fox6

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Posts
47
Just wondering what some of your opinions are on Federal Agents (besides the airmarshals) flying armed on your airplanes. I am required to travel tdy a couple of times a year and have never had a problem, however I know it is ultimately up to the Captains. Didn't know if we are well recieved for the most part or not. Thanks

F6
 
I think it is great... I wish more LEOs would travel armed! What a joke our security is.... There are many things people can do to get weapons on the aircraft and start lopping off heads.. Put an armed well trained LEO back there and see how many Muhammads try anything.
 
Do not mind having them onboard. Please take a moment to introduce yourself to the Captain. Its nice to have a face to put with the documents for armed pax.
 
I've seen some awfully questionable agencies carrying on flights, like FDA inspectors and Postal inspectors (armed in case the letters and produce get rowdy, apparently). Departmental rules must give a lot of flexibility for who is allowed to carry on duty, instead of dictating in black and white who will carry and who will not carry.

Airline rules have always allowed armed officers and agents to carry their weapon in the cabin of the aircraft, only if they are required to have access to it in flight in the course of their duties. If you can't meet that standard, technically you have to check the weapon. Captains have always given them a lot of leeway, since especially today, it's good to have a LEO in back as one more layer of protection.

I normally allow any LEO to carry on my plane. I know how much hassle and worry is involved with checking the weapon.
 
"Departmental rules must give a lot of flexibility for who is allowed to carry on duty, instead of dictating in black and white who will carry and who will not carry."

Thing is, most Fed LE agencies require agents to be armed anytime "on duty" and we always fly on duty. The LE agent can check the weapon, but if it gets lost or stolen, the agent is going to be disciplined for loss of gov't property or more if someone is hurt. I personally would rather not carry on the plane, but I would feel real stupid if something happened and I could of been armed and wasn't. I'll take a pistol vs. a knife anyday, especially with the element of suprise.
 
Detoxj: Think of it as another piece of safety equipment.

Everyone I know that is a FIDO takes it very seriously, and knows that there is no excuse.. We are the second to last line of defence against what took place September 11, 2001.

The screening process is excellent, and the training is outstanding!

Detoxj, Do you have any suggestions to accompany your accusations?
 
I don't mind having armed LEO's on board. And I've never flown with a captain that has had a problem either.

What I do have a problem with is when the required paperwork is scribbled together, not complete, or questionable in any way. When we get one of those forms, I want to know exactly who they are, who they work for, and where they are sitting.
 
Yeah, lately i've hauled around quite a few armed "Postal Inspectors"... WTF? What exactly is so dangerous about the job one needs a weapon?
 
I have been told that the Postal Inspection can be one of the more exciting and dangerous federal jobs. They do everything from mail fraud to child porn investigations. I wish they would have shot that SOB that kept stealing my Maxims and FHMs.
 
av8tor4239 said:
The screening process is excellent, and the training is outstanding!

Detoxj, Do you have any suggestions to accompany your accusations?



I would have to say that I don't find the screening process that great, especially with some of the questionable individuals at EV who are FFDOs. I can personally think of 2 CAs immediately on the -700 who I (and many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, MANY others) wonder how they each passed the pysch (sp??) evaluation. The rational thought process with these 2 just doesn't exist. I wouldn't want to see either of these 2 pull a weapon on anyone, simply because someone innocent will be killed.....due to stupidity and lack of common sense, not due to the situation.

LTG
 
Weirdest one I ever had was an agent from FEMA. This was on a flight to Pocatello, Idaho if memory serves. I think the river was cresting or something. Don't you guys just hand out checks after hurricanes? But then I guess it would be handy to be packin' when the riot broke out over clean water or dry tobacky.
 
Postal Inspectors deal with anything mail-related: drugs, anthrax, kiddie-porn, you name it. If a someone uses the USPS to commit a crime, the Postal Inspectors can have a go at it. There are over 74 federal law enforcement agencies, most of which have experienced losses in the line of duty. I even know of a Department of Transportation Special Agent that was shot at.

J.


FOX6 -

Are you an 1811?
 
Does BP have 2181 slots, or did you go elsewhere within DHS? I'm just a local-LEO-to-be right now, but I'm curious.

J.
 
Yes, BP has 2181 slots. BP used to only hire from within (min 3 years ground agent), but we are in the middle of a merger with Legacy Customs Air and Marine Ops and they hire off the street. Nobody knows just yet what the outcome will be and who will work for who. BP already dropped the requirement from 3 to 2 years on the ground, but it may be going away all together.
 
US Postal inspector is no JOKING MATTER.... They do some serious business.. and to get that job you have to pay some serious dues!

I have a best friend that is a postal inspector and they crack down doors and take down many f@#ed up people...

You should be glad that you have these people out there taking care of what needs to be delt with!

You are lucky to have the men and women in service with the postal inspectors protecting our freedom! They suit up and get the job done just like all the other FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT agencies that protect your FREEDOMS!

THERE IS NO EXCUSE.. YOU WOULD BE SO LUCK TO HAVE AN ARMED WELL TRAINED EXPERICED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER IN THE BACK OF YOU PLANE WHEN ACHMED AND MUHAMMAD DECICDE TO START LOPPING OFF HEADS!
 
av8tor4239 said:
US Postal inspector is no JOKING MATTER.... They do some serious business.. and to get that job you have to pay some serious dues!

I have a best friend that is a postal inspector and they crack down doors and take down many f@#ed up people...

You should be glad that you have these people out there taking care of what needs to be delt with!

You are lucky to have the men and women in service with the postal inspectors protecting our freedom! They suit up and get the job done just like all the other FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT agencies that protect your FREEDOMS!

THERE IS NO EXCUSE.. YOU WOULD BE SO LUCK TO HAVE AN ARMED WELL TRAINED EXPERICED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER IN THE BACK OF YOU PLANE WHEN ACHMED AND MUHAMMAD DECICDE TO START LOPPING OFF HEADS!

Is it just me or is someone feelng litle gung-ho?

But he is correct. Postal inspectors have a very difficult job, that they do very well. And, as many of you have stated, most if not all federal agencies have a law enforcement branch. As was mentioned, FEMA had criminal investigators (1811's) that deal with ALOT of criminal fraud cases for example.

What needs to be remembered is that ALL of these investigators, if with a federal agency, have all completed the EXACT law enforcement training as agents with agencies you are more familure with ( i.e. DEA,USSS ect.. ) Well except FBI, they are a bit of more of a training challenge!

So long story short, if they have a federal commission... they are fully functioning federal law eforcement agents.

And yes some FFDO's give me the "willlies" to!
 
Well, if some FFDOs give you the "willies" or you don't think you could trust them with a firearm, then they have no business flying an airplane in the first place. There are some strange pilots in this business anyway, armed and unarmed, captains and first officers. You wonder sometimes how they made it past the interview. If you have concerns about a persons mental state or they are doing something that makes you uncomfortable, voice your concerns to the proper chains.
 
49W-

Flying an airplane and carrying a firearm are two completely different concerns. Having the ability to make a "shoot/don't shoot" decision in less thann a second (or five minutes for that matter) does not even equate to the decision to "shoot" a CAT II approach.

There is decision making process in the cockpit that, in the case of a commercial airliner, involves two people with the same information and knowlage base. With the armed pilot situation, you have one person with all the chips and looking at the cards, and another in the seat next to him that dosent even know which way the game is played.

Before I start gettng bashed, please understand that I think the FFDO program has some merit. However, I do feel as though there are some large safety problems with the program and I will just keep it at that for now. But as a retired law enforcement officer and a current airline pilot, I can see both sides of the argument. I have made both the "CAT II" and the "shoot" descisions at differnet times in my life.

The safety of passangers should start and be in place prior to our pushing from he gate. There are programs in the world where proper prescreening of passangers works, and works well. Israel has had one such program in play for almost 30 years.
 

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