Pattern in a Jet?

[AmexFlyer]

I was told that I should not teach students to control the airplane when landing with pitch for airspeed power for altitude because it does not transfer to turbine flying. In reality I think that its a combination of both pitching for the airspeed/power for altitude and normal commands, but when airspeed is critical such as when landing (including transition from downwind, base, final) it should be controlled mainly by pitch... Any thoughts...and references for or against?

 

[mckpickle]

I disagree. Teaching students the fundamental that pitch controls airspeed can keep them out of trouble and gives them something to fall back on. When the engine fails the student will automatically revert to the law of primacy. And if that is that pitch controls airspeed than hopefully that will be the focus instead of a stall/spin/crash/die event.

Granted in a jet if we are slow we add power, but by then we understand the relationship of pitch and power being 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other. Good luck and good question.

 

[2000flyer]

I certainly wouldn't worry about teaching young/low time students anything other than proven and recommended techniques for their experience level. As they advance, they'll be able to use that foundation to transition into more complex aircraft.

Just my 2 cents.

2000Flyer

 

[banned username 2]

I was told that I should not teach students to control the airplane when landing with pitch for airspeed power for altitude because it does not transfer to turbine flying. In reality I think that its a combination of both pitching for the airspeed/power for altitude and normal commands, but when airspeed is critical such as when landing (including transition from downwind, base, final) it should be controlled mainly by pitch... Any thoughts...and references for or against?

This is how I was taught and how I taught my students...

Keep up the good work...

 

[bobbysamd]

The old debate, again . . . .

I happen to follow the FAA's line - that you pitch for altitude and power for speed. It works in everything. But as a practical matter, yes, make sure that everything is coordinated. Trim is vital. Nothing the matter with making minor speed corrections (1 or 2 kts) with pitch in your garden-variety trainer in the pattern; anything more and you need to adjust power about 50 rpm or 1" Hg or so.

Just my 2¢, as always.

PS-I appreciate the comments below about flying a Lear; I always learned that if you add power in a Lear without pitch up it'll go down, contrary to what your normal Cessna or Piper, etc. will do.

 

[Singlecoil]

I was told that I should not teach students to control the airplane when landing with pitch for airspeed power for altitude because it does not transfer to turbine flying. In reality I think that its a combination of both pitching for the airspeed/power for altitude and normal commands, but when airspeed is critical such as when landing (including transition from downwind, base, final) it should be controlled mainly by pitch... Any thoughts...and references for or against?

Your method works great in an airplane with a line of thrust below the center of gravity. Chop power, the nose falls, add power, the nose rises. That doesn't transfer to airplanes with engines in the tail, that is why the FAA approved method, and the one in the Flight Training Handbook, is power for airspeed, pitch for altitude. I taught the other method before a Chief Instructor had a word with me. I found the FAA method is just as easy to teach effectively if you explain why you are telling them that; so they'll know what to do when they buy that Learjet.

 

[AmexFlyer]

Looks like there are pros and cons to both techniques. There has been the obvious argument that if you are low and slow pitching down to maintain an airspeed can be disastrous, but it can also be said that if you just pitch up the same result can happen (big smokin hole). My point is that if you really want to be stabilized and reduce the workload on the student, pitching and trimming for an airspeed seem to be what makes the most sense, otherwise all the pitching and power corrections from the other technique require a lot of retrimming, therefore increasing the workload. As said before, the FAA's way is the pitch for Alt Power for A.S. as per the AFH but if you look at faa-p-8740-48 (http://avstop.com/AC/landing/landing1.htm) which is a phamlpet from the FAA on landings, they refer quite a bit to the pitch for AS power for Alt technique.

 

[ClassG]

I thought someone else would bring this up, but haven't seen it yet in the thread.....

My experience on both sides of the fence has been that when you are instructing primary students, you need to make them understand the following:

1 - REALLY, all conditions and configurations of flight require a COMBINATION of pitch and power adjustment with regard to airspeed and altitude control. However,

2- When the aircraft is operating ahead of the peformance curve (cruise regime), power primarily controls airspeed and pitch primarily controls altitude.

3- When the aircraft is operating behind the performance curve (slow flight regime), power primarily controls altitude and pitch primarily controls airspeed.




Being behind the performance curve (or in the 'area of reverse command' as it was once commonly referred to) is explained this way:

Total drag is the sum of induced and parasite drag.
At the airspeed corresponding to minimum total drag (or LDa) for a given airplane, minimum power is required for level flight.
Any gain or loss in airspeed will result in a higher drag coefficient and a resultant loss of altitude.

Behind the curve: A reduction of airpeed below LDa results FROM an increase in pitch (at constant power). Without an increase in power, there is primarily in a need to lower pitch (AofA) to regain that speed. Since altitude will also be lost in the process, power must be used to regain that lost altitude, primarily.



And , of course, as was stated, there is the need to impress upon the student that in the case of stall (full or immenent), the "Break" or pitch down movement of the yoke is used to immediately increase airspeed over the wings as part of the recovery. Power alone (while holding elevator back pressure) will only aggravate the stalled condition.


Anyone want to straighten me out? I'm sure someone can explain this more clearly and fix any errors I have made. It's been a while since I've covered this material.

 

[GVFlyer]

I disagree. Teaching students the fundamental that pitch controls airspeed ...

Tell that to your autopilot.

 

[100LL... Again!]

An intersting side note-

Whenever pilots get into this discussion, I like to ask them what they mean by 'pitch'.

Some say pitch but they really mean elevator control pressure when they descibe how they teach it. Some mean elevator deflection. Many mean actual aircraft attitude.

Both methods are what you could call a 'mental model'.
Two pilots may argue bitterly over which controls what, but if they are any good, they will both fly the aircraft the exect same way. Pitch controls how much dirt you see. Power controls noise level.

Get the correct amount of visible dirt and noise level, and you got a perfect approach.

 

[SquirrelDog]

Just fly the plane!

If you just do what needs to be done to get the job accomplished for the many different scenarios of flight then who cares what explanations are more correct. If a pilot knows how an airplane operates and is comfortable with their personal abilitites and the aircrafts capabilities then JUST FLY THE PLANE.

the rest is just gravy...