Passengers retaliation against regionals

[180ToTheMarker]

I think most people do not like the RJs due to having to leave your carry on in the back and having to walk downstairs across the ramp then back up the airplane stairs (thats how we at ASA do it, rain, sleet, hail, doesn't matter.) It looks like a half-assed operation. This is especially true for the pax going between two large city pairs...ie ATL-JFK. They always bitch about the size of the plane and I don't blame them. On the other hand, nobody complains about the RJ when its ATL-VLD or ATL-FLO or some other small town. I think city size plays a role here...its all about expectations.

-180

 

[surplus1]

General,

Thanks, but you did not answer any of my questions. I already know your agenda.

The questions were legitimate, not for the purpose of arguement.

 

[General Lee]

Surplus1,

I don't have an "agenda" here, I am voicing my opinion. I am not out to convince you that RJs are bad bad bad......I think, IMO, that RJs won't do well against LCCs with mainline sized aircraft when they fly on the same route. I don't think we should park every RJ--no way---I just think Delta should think about what they are doing when they are competing against Airtran and others with RJs directly.


180tothemarker,

I absolutely agree with you----there are some city pairings that shouldn't have RJs on them, especially since the passengers have "supposedly" come back or will come back. I think one of the main reasons Delta has done this is because we don't have any extra mainline sized planes available. We have moved a lot of our planes around, and we have taken all of our 737s and 767s out of the desert---but all of the 727s, L1011s, and MD-11s are still there. We still pay about $15,000 a day for each of the 11 MD-11s in the desert. (which easily could have been used for MAC charters to Kuwait) We have a lot more RJs now that we did pre-9-11, and we parked 50-60 mainline planes (727s, L10's, MD-11's) and we now will have the same amount of passengers with lower fares. That sums it up.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[rstev1955]

I just picked three, but I could go on.

From their websites...

Airline/Acft Width Pitch
NWA B756 17.17 30-32
NWA A320 17.17 31-32
NWA DC9-50 17.05 30-31
NWA CRJ/CR4 17.17 31
NWA RJ85 19.0 33

DAL 757-200 17.0 31-33
DAL 737-300 17.2 35-37
DAL MD-88 17.0 31-33
COMAIR CRJ 17.5 31
COMAIR ERJ135 17.3 31

CAL 757-200 17.2 31
CAL 737-200 17.2 31
CAL MD80 17.0 31
COEX RJ145 17.3 31
COEX RJ135 17.3 31

Don't you hate it when someone confuses the issue with facts. Which aircraft have greater sitting room?

 

[Tim47SIP]

Facts?

Don't you hate it when someone confuses the issue with facts. Which aircraft have greater sitting room?

Ya! especially the COMAIR ERJ135 one. Exactly where did you get your facts?

 

[ADG]

Tell ya what,

I've heard many more people comment on what a nice flight they had when they deplane then get on board.

Many know an RJ is the only aircraft available for the destination. If the flight is blocked around 1.5 hours, I really do not think it matters as long as the ticket price is reasonable, the flight is on time and the bags arrive with the passenger.

I just had a doctor friend fly on us and he does a lot of flying, he had a really good experience on the RJ.

Just my opinion of course.

ADG

 

[General Lee]

Comair secretly owns Chataqua.......

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jetexas]

When I flew Turboprops I got to listen to 'some' passengers b*tch about the "scarey noisy props". In the ERJ I Ihear about how "small" the jet is.

Some passengers will just B*tch about the plane they ride even if the tickets are free!

 

[Thedude]

Jeez I am tired of all those who like to quote seat pitch. If it ain't at least 50 degress it dont matter. What I care about is the sit width and cushion comfort, I remember the days of flying t'props and I swear the ERJ/CJ have the same crappy seats that the Metro used to have. Oh, wait they have a 12 degree sit pitch....oh yeah that make the difference. I jumpseat alot and I have had my bum go numb more than one on an RJ.

I was under the impression that the RJs were brought in to service to replace T'props only. AA used to tought greater customer acceptance of jets of t'props (I'll buy that one). It makes sense to run these airframes on routes shorter than 500 NM or 1 hr stage lengths. Anything above this break point goes to larger a/c (100 seats and larger) . But seeing Comair go DFW-ORD kinda drives me nuts.

 

[Ty Webb]

The ERJ has the most uncomfortable seats I have sat in on any airplane, big or small.

Try sitting in a window seat with size 13 shoes. You can't fit both of your feet flat on the floor! I had to sit for two hours with one foot on top of the other, and by the time I got out, I could hardly stand up, I was so cramped.

It made hitching a ride on the Flight Attendant jumpseat seem comfortable.

I would rather walk, thanks.

 

[rstev1955]

Tim47SIP,

(Ya! especially the COMAIR ERJ135 one. Exactly where did you get your facts?)

What part of "From their websites..." did you not understand? Go to the Delta Airlines website, go to their fleet, and click on each of the aircraft (you have to scroll down a little to the comair fleet). I only reported what was listed.

 

[Tim47SIP]

rstev - You got Me!

I think that joke backfired on me. I did not word that sentence the way it was ment to come out. I didn't mean that you were incorect, but the way I typed it, it sure made it sound that way. So I apologize to you. I was making fun of the fact that Comair has info on aircraft they don't have. Maybe that info could be a precursor of things to come or the gen could be on to something with Chitaco.

 

[rstev1955]

Tim,

No offense taken. Sorry for the sarcastic response to you. I just think it is funny that everyone thinks the RJs seats are so much smaller when they are in fact as wide or wider than most mainline aircraft (at least as reported by the airlines). I know there are other issues (such as seat cushions, leg space, etc) that make RJs less desireable, but they still do a good job of getting pax from point A to point B.

Cheers...

 

[General Lee]

rstev,

Not when the flight is over 2 hours and the plane is full. Passengers can't really get up when the stew is serving, and on the CRJ you can't even see out the window unless you are sitting on the aisle or have a pencil neck. (pencil neck geeks!) But, I also think the CRJs are nicer than props, have nice cockpits, and they can get people from A to B safely---but just uncomfortably on flights over 2 hours. It is true.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[grinder]

The real reason RJs stink

My new perspective on furl.

I always thought the SF340A had great, comfortable seats.

The RJ butt portion of the seat may be the same, but the head and shoulder part sucks in the window seats. You have to lean in. Also the bottom curves in so you have no foot room. This all creates a huge problem with using your laptop. I routinely buy last minute tix for work now that I am no longer a pilot, and I get the ticket on the big plane so I can work.

Two things you RJ pilots, and all pilots might not realize:

I, now a businessman, don't care how much it costs to get somewhere, because I don't pay for it. I just have to be there.

The best part is that if I can do work on the plane, I can bill for it. That's right, I like many other business people charge hours. I can now potentially make more than the RJ Captain makes on the leg if I could only get my friggin laptop out!!!

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Comair secretly owns Chataqua.......

Bye Bye--General Lee

Good! Guess I'll be getting my two year upgrade after all

 

[aewanabe]

Uh, no you won't KAK. There will be a Wexford/Alpa/Teamsters Fragmentation Grenade Policy and all upgrades will go to former Shuttle America SAAB drivers.....

In all seriousness, I drive an ERJ and I'd rather ride in one than a CRJ, because of the A seat (I'm rather anti-social when I deadhead/non-rev), and because I like looking out the window and don't have to break my neck to do it. For short flights I prefer either one to 21E on a US 737 or DL 757, for example. But I can definitely attest to the awful seats on either one for longer flights. The quotes about seat pitch and width are pretty misleading; the problem is the overall seat cushion structure is smaller with less padding. When the airplanes are new the seats are pretty decent, but get one about 3 years old (ERJ or CRJ) and you're pretty much sitting directly on the supporting structure since the foam's all worn out under that pretty leather. And as much as I love my flying lawn-dart, the poor guys in the F seats (window on the double side) are definitely getting hosed on foot space (been there done that). I feel sorry for them when we stick 'em on a 2-hour leg; I can't imagine the poor SOBs flying Houston to the west coast in Express Jet's XRs! So yeah, on those longer flights I can see why someone would rather be in the middle on AirTran or Southwest... at least you've got a cushion that isn't flat and somewhere to put your feet

 

[IAHERJ]

I remember the pilots at COEX asking management how on earth they expected the passangers to endure 4 hours in an ERJ "leather" seat on West Coast flights. They ensured us that the XR's would have a tougher reinforced seat. When they arrived, they indeed came outfitted with different seats and they did offer more cushion. My question to any Xjet guy/gal would be the current status of those cushions. I haven't caught a ride on an XR in a while. I'd be curious to see how those things are holding up.

On another note, this evening I'll be catching a ride on an ASA CRJ-700 to Atlanta. The flight looks good for nonreving and my past experiences on the 70 have been great. Windows are higher as the floor was dropped and the performance seems to be excellent from the back row. Seats are clean and comfortable and the crews are always accomodating.

IAHERJ

 

[captainv]

i think we can all agree that coach seats suck in general. cushions are better at mainline, but if you think that makes it comfortable, you're wrong.

sitting in coach on a 777 on the way to Paris would've been the worst flight ever except for one thing - 8 channels of movies. that was the only thing that kept me sane. keep the pax occupied and they'll forget how uncomfortable they are.

i had a friend who recently flew ATL-PHX on a MD-88. other than one drink/snack service, she was bored out of her mind for 4:15. but throw some 5" LCDs in the back of every headrest, or just a few tvs in the airsle, and i guarantee they'll be a lot happier.