Part 91 SIC C550 Is this good chance?

[honda600]

Hi,

I have job offer from local C550 operator. It is part 91C550 SIC job. The insurance company want to see Flight Safety or Sim Com trained SIC or PIC type rated pilots in the cockpit. Here is the deal. Since my total time is less than 1800 hours and no turbine experience at all, insurance cost the company nearly $6000 extra. I do not know it is true or not,,,,, at least the owner said that. I should willing to pay this $6000. Also I need to pay my own type training two of the training centers. It costs me around $14,000,,,,,so I have to pay $20,000. Since my FBO does not have turbine powered aircraft, I will not get any turbine time here. Also I prefer corporate flying over 121. The pay scale is wonderful. First 6 months, I will not get full price but after 6 months it will be great money for single guy.

Other than money issue, I would love to go this offer. Is there any future after, let say 200 hours SIC on C550? Should I get PIC type or SIC? How much difference?

It sounds stupid for experience pilots. However, for me, low paid 152 flight instructor, it sounds great as gold.

Thank you for any information.

 

[imacdog]

It's great as gold for whoever you're going to work for too. I'd tell them to take that 6 grand insurance money and shove it, to be honest. If they truly value you as an employee, they will make the investment.

 

[Rerouted]

Don't walk...run...the other way!

I agree with the post above, the only person who benefits here is the person you are working for - you really are being taken advantage of if you accept these terms. It is not an honor for you to fly this plane, it is a job, and as such, you shouldn't be paying a red cent out of pocket. Keep looking, better opportunites are out there.

 

[ultrarunner]

Let me get this straight...you've been offered a position with a corporation/operator of a mulit-million dollar jet...

...and they expect you to pay for:

1. an "alleged" increase in insurance premium?

2. Training on the aircraft which the job requires?

Have I got this right?

Let me take a guess...this Citation "operator"...is this some FBO or management company that's "operating" the aircraft for the owners? Or is this an actual corporation that owns the aircraft that is telling you this?

Either way, I would respectfully say "thanks but no thanks".

 

[Count Dracula]

No, this is a demeaning way of offering you a position. Do you really want to work for people who do not value you as an employee. Forget it, and save yourself the aggravation. Other opportunities will eventually come your way.

 

[honda600]

Thank you guys,

Now I can think about this straight. I was too excited about the offer. For me, just after landed 152 with pre-solo student,,,,citation sounds great. I checked some of training centers. SIC costs $9500!!!! I need 10 months to make this money at my flight school.

Ok, this company fly C550. It is not Owner and his pilot operation. I do not know how many pilots they hired. I saw 3 of them.

I guess I should start write e-mail "thank you for your offer but no thank you this time." I hope someday I will fly one of these plane.

Honda600

 

[52560]

So, you are willing to pay $20,000 for a job? I will let you take some of my flights if you pay me $15,000! That would save you $5,000 and you still get jet time. PM me and I will let you know where you need to report for work (at your expense of course). When you eat on the road and stay in hotels, go ahead and pay for it with your money, give me the receipts, and I will expense it and keep the money.

You say it is good money for a single guy. How about a professioal pilot? You must realize that one day you will probably not be single anymore, and you will have a family to support. If you take this job the way you present it, you are partly responsible for the decline in the industry and you will pay the price later in your career.

 

[StaticWick]

Thank you guys,

Now I can think about this straight. I was too excited about the offer. For me, just after landed 152 with pre-solo student,,,,citation sounds great. I checked some of training centers. SIC costs $9500!!!! I need 10 months to make this money at my flight school.

Ok, this company fly C550. It is not Owner and his pilot operation. I do not know how many pilots they hired. I saw 3 of them.

I guess I should start write e-mail "thank you for your offer but no thank you this time." I hope someday I will fly one of these plane.

Honda600

If you have extra 20 grand laying around and you want to build jet time go buy yourself a type rating in the most used jets at your field. Advertise yourself...but when I instructed the only 20 grand I ever saw was in a bank vault and it wasn't mine.

 

[honda600]

What is good pay for SIC on C550? They offer me around 50K. I do not know it is good or not. Hey! I made only 18K last year. Even I pay 20K, still I have 30K. Good step up!!

I am going to see what is coming up around here. They are ok people, when topic goes pay,,,,,,,you guys know.

Honda600

 

[freighthumper]

What is good pay for SIC on C550? They offer me around 50K. I do not know it is good or not. Hey! I made only 18K last year. Even I pay 20K, still I have 30K. Good step up!!

I am going to see what is coming up around here. They are ok people, when topic goes pay,,,,,,,you guys know.

Honda600

They are not OK people if they are trying to take advantage of an already underpaid CFI. I see the SJS is strong in you grasshopper. Just say NO. Besides....I bet if you take this job, with the PIC time you prob have right now, you will never be insurable to be PIC in the plane anyways, no matter how much SIC you have in it.

 

[Problow]

Under the terms you have given get away from them. However, seeing that they are willing to pay you $50,000 there may be room for talk. One idea that came to mind would be to offer a decrease in pay, say $40,000 and a training agreement, which says you will stay for a guranteed 1yr or maybe 2yr. This would allow the company to get their invest back from your work and dedication. Using something along these lines would not look bad on you in the long run and it could show your potential employer that you are creative and responsible. Whatever you do, do not pay the insurance or type rating. They are able to afford the cost of an airplane that is worth a few million in terms of price and operation. Best of luck. I don't like these type of people or the ones that require a training agreement, but I was in your shoes not to long ago and I know how hard it is to turn away an opportunity.

 

[Publishers]

Just guessing but I think there may be a slight misunderstanding here. They may have been saying, you are not really qulaified, it would cost us considerably more to hire you than someone else, but heh, if you want to make up the difference, we will consider you.
On the other hand, in a purely 91 operation, it is somewhat unusual for them to require a SIC type in a 550 although here we have 0 turbine time and we do not know what the other times are.

 

[jrod]

I would seriously question that supposed insurance premium increase due to your low time. Most policies only look at the PIC qualifications. Our 560 policy doesn't even have a min time for the SIC. We can use anyone that has a license, medical, current inst rating and RVSM training (if we're going up there).

 

[Swaayze]

I guess I should start write e-mail "thank you for your offer but no thank you this time." I hope someday I will fly one of these plane.

Honda600

Don't do that. Ask for a meeting and let them know that although you really want to work there you are (both philosophically and) financially unable to pay the expenses of doing so, but.... maybe you can offer to commit to them for a year in order to justify their expense in training and insuring you. Or numerous other items could be negotiated as a way to avoid dropping $20 large to secure employment. Try a little outside the box thinking before you pass up the job.


Good luck.

 

[ROSWELL41]

What part of the country are you in?

 

[sky4]

Tell them you will take the job for $30K for first and renegotiate after that.

 

[ekuflyer]

I would seriously question that supposed insurance premium increase due to your low time. Most policies only look at the PIC qualifications. Our 560 policy doesn't even have a min time for the SIC. We can use anyone that has a license, medical, current inst rating and RVSM training (if we're going up there).

Don't tell the feds you can use just anyone.

61.55 Second-in-command qualifications.

(b) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may serve as a second-in-command of an aircraft type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or in operations requiring a second-in-command unless that person has within the previous 12 calendar months:
(1) Become familiar with the following information for the specific type aircraft for which second-in-command privileges are requested—
(i) Operational procedures applicable to the powerplant, equipment, and systems.
(ii) Performance specifications and limitations.
(iii) Normal, abnormal, and emergency operating procedures.
(iv) Flight manual.
(v) Placards and markings.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, performed and logged pilot time in the type of aircraft or in a flight simulator that represents the type of aircraft for which second-in-command privileges are requested, which includes—
(i) Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop as the sole manipulator of the flight controls;
(ii) Engine-out procedures and maneuvering with an engine out while executing the duties of pilot in command; and
(iii) Crew resource management training.

 

[siucavflight]

I dont understand, why do you need an SIC type? Are you staying in the states? If so you do not need one, if you have a multi engine commercial certificate you should be able to fly all of the 91 trips SIC without any training at all(but you should get some).

 

[Peter Brady]

Imagine if you did pay all this money for this job, then 6 months later the company decided to get rid of their aircraft. Or maybe they decided to reduce their staff? You could be out of a job, be out of $20k, and still be considered a low time pilot with a type rating with very little experience in the aircraft. Just a thought.

 

[ekuflyer]

I dont understand, why do you need an SIC type? Are you staying in the states? If so you do not need one, if you have a multi engine commercial certificate you should be able to fly all of the 91 trips SIC without any training at all(but you should get some).

Reference above post. According to 61.55 you do need some training to act as a SIC, the SIC type is just paperwork and not required to fly domestic.