Part 91 Returns

[n5374f]

Aerojet Intl (KFXE) is telling its pilots that when you drop off the patient that is your planned compltion time and thereafter you are part 91 so you can go over the 14 hours of duty. My opinion is since I started at KFXE I must return to KFXE within 14 hours from leaving KFXE anybody have an opion who is right

 

[Way2Broke]

You can go over but technically they can't ask you to and they certainly can not make you. I your not fatigued, wouldn't you rather sleep in your own bed?

 

[chuckthepilot]

Wow, everything I've dealt with on the subject has to do with weight and balance for 91 returns. Nothing about duty times.
Wherever where you work, protect you're license first, the company second, and the passengers last.

 

[Rally]

You can't go over your 14 hours unless good to start good to finish. I think you guys are confusing flight time limitations. Say you have 10 hours into your duty day. 7.9 hours (ie 8 is your max) when you drop the patient off. Its .8 back to the base. You can make the decision to fly back or stay they can't make you go over your 8 hours.

After a patient drop off technically if the flight was 45 minutes back to FXE and you had 15 minutes left on your duty day it would be illegal. Unless BTW your GOM says something different.

I'm pretty sure I'm correct but check your GOM. Or better yet just ask your POI....he's the one thats gonna bust you. lol I'm pretty sure your GOM has something different because what are you going to do leave the only landing area at some hospitals occupied?

 

[Movin' on up!]

FAA is starting to look into this. They are saying that if the flight back is in support of the company...for example, to bring the airplane back to base in order to be ready fo another med flight, then FAR135 rules still apply, meaning not exceeding 14 hours duty. Call the feds...see what they say.

 

[Way2Broke]

FAA is starting to look into this. They are saying that if the flight back is in support of the company...for example, to bring the airplane back to base in order to be ready fo another med flight, then FAR135 rules still apply, meaning not exceeding 14 hours duty. Call the feds...see what they say.

This is becoming the answer for any FAR question. I hate to say it, because it's a lame answer, but, it all does depend on what your POI thinks. S/he would be the one to violate you.

There is no consistency between FSDOs. uke:

 

[Movin' on up!]

Way2broke...you are right. There is no consistency, hoewever, since med flights are under so much scrutiny, a general policy is becoming the norm.

 

[aired]

Our medical crews are trained crewmembers so if there is no patient onboard we can fly Part 91 as far as the FAA in concerned. However, CAMTS wants us to operate under Part 135 whenever we have medical crews onboard. No more tail-end ferries!

Here's the question: Where does it say that there is a 14 hour limit on duty?

 

[HA25]

This is becoming the answer for any FAR question. I hate to say it, because it's a lame answer, but, it all does depend on what your POI thinks. S/he would be the one to violate you.

There is no consistency between FSDOs. uke:

Take that to the bank! Happened to my friend over duty times.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Any flight time in these aircraft should be 135 time only! I flew air ambulance in the 90's and remember all too many "part 91" flights at 3 and 4 a.m. . This , after waiting all day to get a patient you knew you were going to fly, so the hospital could discharge them late and bill out another day.

If this practice would come to light , this subject wouldn't come up near as much.

 

[transpac]

Keep in mind that the reason for Part 135 is a higher level of safety for the customer, not the flight crew. Once there's no paying passenger or revenue cargo on board there's no reason to require a higher level of safety and the FAA does not do so. The exception would be if a tail-end Part 91 flight somehow affected a regulatory requirement for a later Part 135 flight.
Also, different POIs and FSDOs do have differing opinions on a variety of subjects. But, when filing a violation they have to justify their position to regional Flight Standards staff who have to get concurrence from the Regional Legal staff, who in turn have to justify the case to an Administrative Law Judge, unless the alleged violator caves in. An opinion-based violation might be a PITA to a pilot until it gets tossed, but it won't survive the system.

 

[n5374f]

Found my answer

Found documemtation that the tail end ferry Part 91 is legal as of now FAA is looking into changinging the regs to: If any leg is 135 they are all 135 but this is bundled with addressing sit and wait for a call out and the FAA has no answers because how can you operate on demand if the pilots have to have a duty schedule. Typical FAA with no answers so nothing will change for years but as of now part 91 tail end ferry flights are legal. If any one out there does get violated copy the NATA and FAA legal opinion from the web it may save you if you blow a tire on the 91 leg, all the FAA can do is go after you for being careless and reckless by flying fatigued but since we have medics aboard you have witnesses that you are not fatigued