Part 91 Emergency Medical Flight

[Kiwi]

I was wondering on the legality of conducting an emergency medivac flight in our part 91 operated aircraft. We were told that there was nobody else that could do the flight. [we have a small industry here]

We would be paid by an insurance compay and have a letter from a doctor that if we did not conduct the flight the person will die.

The boss turned it down - said we could not accept any remumeration.

It would have been a six hour flight round trip to a pacific island.

Is this possible on a part 91 certificate and if so were could i find this information,

 

[AngelKing]

If you are getting paid for it (in any way), or are expecting any renumeration(of any kind) for future business(any type), then it falls under 135.

You may could do one of those corporate angel mercy flights. But I believe those are strictly donations. I am sure others here would know about those.

ak

 

[Rick1128]

If you are getting paid for it (in any way), or are expecting any renumeration(of any kind) for future business(any type), then it falls under 135.

You may could do one of those corporate angel mercy flights. But I believe those are strictly donations. I am sure others here would know about those.

ak

You can get some renumeration for it. It is strictly limited. Basicly basic expenses (fuel, fees and the like).

 

[coloneldan]

My understanding is, if it is a one time deal, and there is no reciprecation of any sort, you can be paid double your fuel costs. Otherwise if you get a cent, it's 135. Of course, I'm not an FAA or lawyer type. I'm not a genious and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I could be wrong.

Ask your local FSDO, since they will be the ones to violate you, or not. Or just donate the time.

 

[pilotviolin]

What about this.
A owner shows up at the airport and looks like he is about to die. He is the stubborn old rich guy who tells me he doesn't want to die in this state and just to get him back to home where he is going straight to the hospital. He can't even walk on his own, he is pale, and looks like death. You can't talk him into going to the hospital, and he does sign your paycheck. What can you do get priority handling. I really don't want another Howard Hughes dieing enroute. I don't want a call from the fsdo. My guess is nothing.
Could I get lifeguard status, without declaring an emergency and filling out paper work?

 

[Rick1128]

What about this.
A owner shows up at the airport and looks like he is about to die. He is the stubborn old rich guy who tells me he doesn't want to die in this state and just to get him back to home where he is going straight to the hospital. He can't even walk on his own, he is pale, and looks like death. You can't talk him into going to the hospital, and he does sign your paycheck. What can you do get priority handling. I really don't want another Howard Hughes dieing enroute. I don't want a call from the fsdo. My guess is nothing.
Could I get lifeguard status, without declaring an emergency and filling out paper work?

Hopefully you have an Aed in the aircraft and you and your co-hort are CPR trained. Remember, they never die in the aircraft. Only certain people can declare someone dead. A doctor, a police officer, a fireman and a coraner. That is most states with some variations.

In reality that is a no win situation. Best I can say is use your best judgement. If he still tells you to fly him home, be sure to get the names and addresses of the witnesses.

 

[CL600Pilot]

What about this.
Could I get lifeguard status, without declaring an emergency and filling out paper work?

There's no paperwork involved...just tell ATC you're operating as lifeguard. As many times as I launched as a 'lifeguard' flight I don't think I've ever had a controller so much as ask why let alone ask for any paperwork. I don't know why everyone thinks there are mountains and mountains of paperwork involved in declaring an emergency - I've declared 3 emergencies and in all cases the controller simply asked the nature of the emergency and that was it.

 

[some_dude]

You need to have a signed lease, and jump through some other hoops.

The easiest and cleanest way to do this, by far, is simply to do it for free. Anything else and you will start to get into more hassle than it's worth. Or don't do it at all.

My understanding is, if it is a one time deal, and there is no reciprecation of any sort, you can be paid double your fuel costs. Otherwise if you get a cent, it's 135. Of course, I'm not an FAA or lawyer type. I'm not a genious and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I could be wrong.

Ask your local FSDO, since they will be the ones to violate you, or not. Or just donate the time.

 

[MauleSkinner]

You need to have a signed lease, and jump through some other hoops.

The easiest and cleanest way to do this, by far, is simply to do it for free. Anything else and you will start to get into more hassle than it's worth. Or don't do it at all.

Originally Posted by coloneldan
My understanding is, if it is a one time deal, and there is no reciprecation of any sort, you can be paid double your fuel costs. Otherwise if you get a cent, it's 135. Of course, I'm not an FAA or lawyer type. I'm not a genious and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I could be wrong.

Ask your local FSDO, since they will be the ones to violate you, or not. Or just donate the time.

I've never met an FAA inspector who said that doing a flight for free eliminated the 135 aspects of it...If this is your Dad, fine, but if it's somebody off the street, it's 135.

Double the fuel costs is for demos, if I recall correctly...so if you're hoping the dying person will buy your airplane, I guess you could go that route.

Fly safe!

David

 

[some_dude]

Nonsense. If that were the case, Angel Flight would be all 135.

Granted, if you are doing it for a quid pro quo (I'll take your dying uncle to his cancer treatment center on my jet and you give me a $1 million contract for widgets), that would arguably be 135, but probably impossible to prove.

If you are talking about a humanitarian gesture, it's perfectly legal. No different from taking any other guest of the owner on a trip. It's only when you start charging for it, or expecting something in return, that it gets sticky.

I've never met an FAA inspector who said that doing a flight for free eliminated the 135 aspects of it...If this is your Dad, fine, but if it's somebody off the street, it's 135.

 

[coloneldan]

Right. If there is no money or services involved, only a free ride in an airplane, by definition it cannot be 135. You are not "holding out to the public."

 

[MauleSkinner]

Right. If there is no money or services involved, only a free ride in an airplane, by definition it cannot be 135. You are not "holding out to the public."

I guess it depends upon how you define "free"...compensation is the real issue, and "flight time", from what I understand, has been determined to be "compensation" in certain cases.

As to the Angel Flight issue, I'm sure that a certain number of hoops have been jumped through there...if you jump through these same hoops before you fly Mr. Smith to his death bed, you'd probably be all right.

Fly safe!

David

 

[flyinlow67]

I guess it depends upon how you define "free"...compensation is the real issue, and "flight time", from what I understand, has been determined to be "compensation" in certain cases.

As to the Angel Flight issue, I'm sure that a certain number of hoops have been jumped through there...if you jump through these same hoops before you fly Mr. Smith to his death bed, you'd probably be all right.

Fly safe!

David

Isn't Angel Flight a non-profit? Does this affect thier status in anyway?
I would think that if you took them for free, and you owned the aircraft, what would be the problem? It's like taking someone for a ride in your shiny airplane. Holding out is the issue the FSDO would look at.

 

[coloneldan]

The short version goes like this. If there is the slightest question about it being 135, the FAA is gonna check your prostate with a stick of dynamite if they want to. I doesn't matter what they told you last week, or what the regs say, or what Washington says. All they need is the hint of a reason and a hangover. They'll let YOU worry about getting a lawyer and fighting it. It's not their problem.

I say we all go do something simple. I'm gonna be either a soda jerk or a brain surgeon.

 

[ultrarunner]

I was wondering on the legality of conducting an emergency medivac flight in our part 91 operated aircraft. We were told that there was nobody else that could do the flight. [we have a small industry here]

Sounds like someone simply didn't want to charter a med flight.

 

[Parrot_Head_Fly]

135

As PIC if someone is looking like they were about to die, do you want them in the air with you? You could be doing them more harm than good. Nothing wrong with refusing the flight. If they are somewhat stable and just need a ride to a better facility then I say go for it. Its a 135 flight if its conducted under as an Air Ambulance OP. Carrying a Defib, nurses, doctors, etc. Hospitals are not allowed to let nurses, therapist, or doctors travel pt. 91 for patient care. Insurance reasons.

 

[Rusty]

Stay on the safe and leagal side

www.airmed.com or 1-877-633-5387

Air ambulance for anywhere in the world.