Part 61 Section 56

[Iceman07]

Sec. 61.56

Flight review.

.
.
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(d) A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish the flight review required by this section.

So, does my CFI Reinstatement Checkride count as a BFR?
The CFI is not a "rating, or operating privilege". Is it a pilot certificate?

 

[nosehair]

No, it is a Flight Instructor Certificate. The Legal Guardians of the FAA (and other entities) point to the FAA regulatory wording of the difference in Certificates and determine that an initial or renewal of a Flight Instructor Certificate does not meet the Letter of the Law.

It has also beeen said that it would count if the Examiner who passes you on the checkride would sign off the FR, it would be legal, but examiners are not giving dual on a checkride, so that also does not meet the Letter of the Law according to the requirement of 1 hour dual. Besides, most examiners don't want to take on the added liability that might accrue with that sign-off.

So, get the instructor who recommended you for the checkride to include a FR sign-off.

 

[bertengineer]

No BFR required

Under 61.199

(a) Flight instructor certificates. The holder of an expired flight instructor certificate may exchange that certificate for a new certificate with the same ratings by passing a practical test as prescribed in §61.183(h) of this part for one of the ratings listed on the expired flight instructor certificate.

If you did this and had a checkride with an examiner...for a renewal of the certificate..you do not need a BFR!

 

[Princedietrich]

Bert is correct.

Any flight evaluation performed by an FAA inspector or an otherwise authorized designee, like a DPE or a 135/121 checkairman, counts for the purposes of a BFR. A CFI reinstatement checkride will satisfy the need for a BFR.

 

[minitour]

Under 61.199

(a) Flight instructor certificates. The holder of an expired flight instructor certificate may exchange that certificate for a new certificate with the same ratings by passing a practical test as prescribed in §61.183(h) of this part for one of the ratings listed on the expired flight instructor certificate.

If you did this and had a checkride with an examiner...for a renewal of the certificate..you do not need a BFR!

How do you figure?

That's not a pilot certificate...it's a flight instructor certificate. You're not getting a "BFR" on your CFI...you have to renew those every 24 months by other means. You're "renewing" your Pilot Certificate for the next 24 months in a "BFR"...61.183 is practical test for a CFI, not a pilot. I don't see how the two mix.

-mini

 

[pilotpat]

Hmmm...and here I sit in a cruddy hotel without my trusty FAR's to follow this question.

I know I don't have to have a BFR due to my 135 checks every six months. But if the 1 hour dual is required then an FAA examiner probably wouldn't sign off. I agree with Nosehair. Whoever you flew with prior to your CFI reinstatement should be the one to sign you off. Obviously, you did well enough!!

 

[Iceman07]

I agree with Nosehair. Whoever you flew with prior to your CFI reinstatement should be the one to sign you off. Obviously, you did well enough!!

It is an interesting question. I do know that a "Normal" CFI revalidation does not count as a FR. But a re-instatement (or even an initial CFI) check-ride, that I don't know.

Actually, because it was a reinstatement, I did not need (or get) a recomendation. I did fly with a CFI a week or so before the checkride mainly because I had not done a Lazy Eight or Eights on Pylons for so long.

He probably would sign the FR for me, though.

 

[nosehair]

I know I don't have to have a BFR due to my 135 checks every six months.

If you're doing 135 checks you are covered. They don't have to be logged in your logbook as a FR (without the B). The same reg that you are trying to use regarding a flight check also allows any PILOT check, such as 135 check, then a Flight Review is not required.

 

[nosehair]

Hmmm...and here I sit in a cruddy hotel without my trusty FAR's to follow this question.

Hmmmm....how did you get youself stuck in a cruddy hotel room without your trusty FAR's? That's like runnin' out of gas.

 

[pilotpat]

Hmmmm....how did you get youself stuck in a cruddy hotel room without your trusty FAR's? That's like runnin' out of gas.

I must've forgotten them in my trunk!! LOL But now that I'm home, I'll give a full report when I wake up.

 

[midlifeflyer]

It is an interesting question. I do know that a "Normal" CFI revalidation does not count as a FR. But a re-instatement (or even an initial CFI) check-ride, that I don't know.

Nosehair is right. It has to do with the way the regs are worded. The FR requirements is satisfied by certain rides for pilot certificates and privileges. The way the FAR is worded, an instructor certificate or privilege is not a pilot certificate or privilege any more than a ground instructor or mechanic certificate or privilege is.

From a pure regulation standpoint, the FAR treats instructor certificates separately from pilot certificates. Staring with

==============================
§ 61.1 Applicability and definitions.
(a) This part prescribes:
(1) The requirements for issuing pilot, flight instructor, and ground instructor certificates and ratings; the conditions under which those certificates and ratings are necessary; and the privileges and limitations of those certificates and ratings.
(2) The requirements for issuing pilot, flight instructor, and ground instructor authorizations; the conditions under which those authorizations are necessary; and the privileges and limitations of those authorizations.
(3) The requirements for issuing pilot, flight instructor, and ground instructor certificates and ratings for persons who have taken courses approved by the Administrator under other parts of this chapter.
==============================

The differentiation continues throughout the FAR and general FAA policy with amazing consistency, from medical certificate requirements (a CFI doesn't need one unless he's also acting as required crew) to the requirement that, in order to teach in an aircraft, a CFI must have both "A pilot certificate =and= flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating" (61.195(b)(1). One may exist, but it would be hard to find an FAR that =does= treat the flight instructor certificate as a pilot certificate.

The practical problem is obvious (how do you pass a CFI checkride if you can't fly safely to begin with?). The result is not only confusion by pilots, but there are also FSDOs that will treat it different ways.

 

[avbug]

From the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) published by FAA Employee John Lynch, at the time AFS-840 of the Airman Certification Branch...who was responsible for writing and administering the regulation:


QUESTION: The particular question is whether a flight instructor who passes a flight instructor practical test (for initial issuance or a CFI rating addition or for a reinstatement) is or is not exempt from needing a § 61.56 Flight Review for the next two years, since the reg. specifically says PILOT proficiency check.” § 6l.56 d - allows this exemption for a person who has"... passed a PILOT proficiency check.." not needing to accomplish a flight review for the next 2 years.

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.56(d); If the examiner also evaluates the applicant’s piloting skills then YES, “. . . a flight instructor practical test (for initial issuance or a CFI rating addition or for a reinstatement) . . .” would meet the requirements of a § 61.56 Flight Review. However, to make sure the applicant gets credit for successful completion of the Flight Review, the examiner should record that the § 61.56 Flight Review was satisfactorily completed in the applicant’s logbook.

§ 61.56(d) states:
(d) A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish the flight review required by this section.


QUESTION: Does a Part 141 annual check also count in lieu of a flight review?

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.56(d); As is the case in the Answer to Question 1 above, if the Chief Instructor, Assistant Chief Instructor, or Check Instructor evaluates the flight instructor’s piloting skills then the answer is YES, a Part 141 annual check would count for a § 61.56 Flight Review. However, to make sure the applicant gets credit for successful completion of the Flight Review, the Chief Instructor, Assistant Chief Instructor, or Check Instructor who conducts the check should record that the § 61.56 Flight Review was satisfactorily completed in the applicant’s logbook.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I've always liked that answer. "Yes, it can satisfy the requirements, but only if the check pilot signs the FR endorsement."

Which makes it no different than any transition training (even a 152 to a 172), a run of the mill checkout at a new FBO, or literally any other flight with a CFI which includes the 1 hour of ground and 1 hour of flight that is required for a flight review.

The only problem with the answer (other than that it's meaningless) is that a lot of folks get to the "YES" and think it automatically satisfies the requirements (which I'm 99% sure is the question that was being asked) when the answer is actually "No, it doesn't. But if the person performing the check has evaluated the pilot's piloting skills and ground knowwledge in accordinace with 61.56, he or she may also endorse the piot for a successful completion of a flight review."

Gee, I wonder why the FAA removed the FAQ and followed up with a notice not to rely on what it used to say.

 

[avbug]

I've always liked that answer. "Yes, it can satisfy the requirements, but only if the check pilot signs the FR endorsement."

Perhaps, but that's not what the FAQ states, is it? (It is not). The FAQ states, contrary to what's been said throughout this thread, that a reinstatement or flight instructor ride DOES count for the purposes of 61.56. It adds the recommendation that one obtain an endorsement as well.

Now, you may find this an arduous and labor-intensive suggestion. Perhaps it's too burdensome. Perhaps it's so weighty as to boggle the mind and addle the senses...but does it really kill you to just get the endorsement?

I've often requested one, even though I don't need it, when taking a checkride for pilot privileges. No big deal. I've requested them from check airmen, and from facilities such as Flight Safety and Simuflite. No big deal. No extra cost, no fuss, no muss. Why the excitement?

One needn't explain as a non-instrument rated pilot how one logs instrument flight time (it's legal), though it's strongly advised when one fills out one's logbook. Avoiding confusion, misunderstanding...it's just not a big deal. Same thing here. A simple signature. No heartache. No cost. Just ink.

Which makes it no different than any transition training (even a 152 to a 172), a run of the mill checkout at a new FBO, or literally any other flight with a CFI which includes the 1 hour of ground and 1 hour of flight that is required for a flight review.

Quite incorrect. What this means is that one who is undertaking a checkride for a flight instructor certificate need not take the flight review...all that is suggested is that one add an endorsement. No additional flying. No additional hour of ground. Just a signature...and that's not required, though it is recommended.

The only problem with the answer (other than that it's meaningless) is that a lot of folks get to the "YES" and think it automatically satisfies the requirements (which I'm 99% sure is the question that was being asked) when the answer is actually "No, it doesn't.

Notice that the statement by John Lynch does not say the examiner must endorse the applicant, but only that he should.

But if the person performing the check has evaluated the pilot's piloting skills and ground knowwledge in accordinace with 61.56, he or she may also endorse the piot for a successful completion of a flight review."

Notice the operative word in there. Not "must," but "may."

Gee, I wonder why the FAA removed the FAQ and followed up with a notice not to rely on what it used to say.

You should find out, rather than wonder. You should also note that the FAQ was never an official statement of policy, but a personal sacrifice on the part of John Lynch...who also wrote the regulation. John Lynch has had many other duties, and Part 61 is about to undergo some very big changes, as is much of the regulation as the move is made toward a "plain english" version. The FAQ wasn't discontinued because of inaccuracy, as it was never official policy, nor was it ever set forth as official policy. However, you already knew that.

FAA policy, and regulation, stipulates that renewal of a flight instructor certificate using a ground course counts for the hour of ground required for the flight review. No small stretch of reason, nor of the regulation, is necessary to see that when a pilot's pilot skills are evaluated as part of a reinstatement practical test, the requirements of the regulation have been met. No additional training or testing is required. Adding an endorsement to seal the deal, makes sense and is no great hardship.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Perhaps, but that's not what the FAQ states, is it? (It is not).

Actually, especially if you read it along with the opinion out of the FAA's Eastern Regional counsel's office, that is what it says. Even without the Opinion, how does one know, in the words of the FAQ, "if the examiner also evaluates the applicant’s piloting skills..." unless there is some endorsement to that effect? Mind reading? Little voices in your head?

BTW,

Now, you may find this an arduous and labor-intensive suggestion. Perhaps it's too burdensome. Perhaps it's so weighty as to boggle the mind and addle the senses...but does it really kill you to just get the endorsement?

this suggests that you have difficulty with reading comprehension in other areas as well. I'm looking for where anyone in this thread suggested that asking for the endorsement is just too much work.

 

[avbug]

Show the regional interpretation.

 

[midlifeflyer]

(emphasis added)

1 Aviation Plaza
Room 561
Jamaica, NY 11434

RE: Interpretation of FAR 61.56(d)

Dear Mr. Dennstaedt:

This is in response to your letter dated August 25, 2001, wherein you ask whether an airman can satisfy the flight review requirement under 14 C.F.R. (Federal Aviation Regulation [FAR]) 61.56 by passing a practical test to become a certified flight instructor (CFI), as required by FAR 61.183.

Under FAR 61.56(c)(1), one may not act as pilot-in-command of an aircraft unless, within the preceding 24 calendar months, he has "accomplished a flight review given in an aircraft for which that pilot is rated by an authorized instructor." Under FAR 61.56(c)(2), the airman must receive a logbook endorsement from the authorized instructor certifying that he has satisfactorily completed the review. Under FAR 61.56(a), a flight review must include: (1) a review of the current general operating and flight rules of Part 91; and (2) a review of those maneuvers and procedures that, at the discretion of the person giving the review, are necessary for the pilot to demonstrate the safe exercise of the privileges of the pilot certificate.

Under FAR 61.56(d), however, the flight review requirement of FAR 61.56(c)(1) does not apply to one who has "passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a pilot certificate rating, or operating privilege."

The issue you raise is whether passing a practical test to become a CFI can fall within the exception to the flight review requirement that is provided by FAR 61.56(d). Under FAR 183(h), to be eligible for a flight instructor certificate or rating, the applicant must "pass the required practical test that is appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought." The FAA Practical Test Standards (PTS) for the airplane flight instructor examiner (sic) requires that the examiner ensure that the flight instructor applicant has the "ability to perform the procedures and maneuvers included in the standards to at least the commercial pilot skill level."

Thus, the instructor has broad discretion in conducting a flight review. A CFI practical test encompasses the demonstration of various basic maneuvers that an instructor is likely to cover in a flight review. Incorporating a flight review into the CFI practical test could be accomplished, therefore, with little, if any difficulty.

Accordingly, a CFI practical test will not per se fulfill the flight review requirement. A practical test for a CFI rating under FAR 61.183, taken within 24 months of a prior flight review, can readily meet the flight review requirement of FAR 61.56(d), however, if the examiner is satisfied that a flight review endorsement can be given. To ensure that the CFI applicant gets credit for successful completion of the flight review, however, he or she should ask the examiner to conduct the CFI oral and practical test so as to satisfy the flight review requirements as well, and to make a logbook endorsement for the flight review upon completion of the examination.

If you have additional inquiries, please contact Zachary M. Berman of this office at (718) 553-3258.

Sincerely,


Loretta E. Alkalay

(FAA Regional Counsel, Eastern Region)

 

[rickair7777]

I hashed this out in my professional life, for real, and the non-theoretical answer is that a CFI ride does not count for a FR, unless the examiner also specifically signed off a FR (which they may not want to do).

Don't believe me? Well, it cost me a job...an interviewer told me I had been flying professionally for two years with no FR!

If you have a CFI ride in the future, get the instructor who does your signoff to fill out a FR on that day, real easy.

If you have been using a CFI ride as FR incorrectly, try to find the the cfi who did your signoff(s) and get them to do a FR endorsement for the same date. That will cure any FR gaps, and maybe save you hassles at an interview.