Part 61 Checkrides

[Sean]

I'm thinking about going to ATP for my CFI - II - MEI.

Question...

I have done all my training up until now part 141. The great thing about 141 is that if you bust a check ride it does not go in your file. I have not busted a check ride yet, however if I did go to ATP and busted a ride it would go on my record...would this hurt me down the road trying to get into major's etc???

 

[Saabslime]

Enlighten me as to how a bust under 141 doesn't go in your file. I've never heard this before

 

[Sean]

61

From what I understand, please correct me if I'm wrong...I'm looking for help here, not looking for a fight...if you F up a check ride part 61 it goes on your FAA record...part 141 does not?

 

[KingAirer]

yes ur wrong

 

[Speedtree]

If you bust a checkride you bust a checkride. 141 or 61 doesn't matter. If the DE is an authorized one he should be sending all those little carbon copies to the FAA regardless of which box is checked on it. Also, your 141 records aren't sealed as far as I know so any potential employer could ask to see them although I haven't heard of this happening.

As far as going to ATP you get what you pay for. They are in the business of giving you certificates as fast as possible. I believe they do good work and are organized. They have to be to run the kind of organization they do but there are limitations to doing something fast as opposed to thoroughly. I have also seen many CFI instructors in part 61 schools who probably aren't much better. My advice is that if you want to get the best CFI training get it through a good 141 school or from an experienced CFI somwhere. Be overprepared.

Busting a checkride does not mean you can't get hired by a major. Passing all your checkrides means you have a better shot than the guy next to you who failed one. all other things being equal. How you handle a bust is a large part of what happens to you.

regards.

 

[Sean]

61

Thanks Speedtree, good info.

 

[FlyinBrian]

Busted is Busted

There is NO difference between a 141 and a 61 checkride. They use the same PTS, and a bust is a bust. The misconception that a 141 bust doesn't count comes from a practice that some 141 self-examining schools use.

Some schools with examining authority will count a checkride bust as an "end of course check", the results of which are not submitted to the FAA. This allows these schools to maintain high pass rates. I really don't know anything about the legality of this practice. To me it certainly seems unethical.

 

[jaybird]

In house authority

The only way a busted checkride will not show up up on your record is if the 141 flight school has in house examining authority. Not all 141 schools have this. Riddle is an example of in house examining authority. If you fail a checkride there no, it not show up in your FAA records. If you did the ratings 141. You can however take a 141 course and have a DE give the checkride and yes the failure will be noted in your FAA records.

The commercial course at ERAU is the only course where you must take a DE ride and yes a failure will show up on your record.

The only real advantige I see to 141 is that you usually get college credit for the ratings and if your low time you are exempt from the 250 hour rule for the commercial rating. 61 is a hell of a lot easier and cheaper.

 

[Timebuilder]

Sean

Perhaps what you are referring to are the "stage checks" which are a part of 141 programs. They are not actual checkrides, but are considered to be opportunities to see how the student is progressing, find any instruction anomolies, and provide any needed insights or instruction from the chief, assistant chief, or designated instructor named on the 141 certificate. Remedial instruction or notes about the stage check would normally be placed in the 141 folder, not forwarded to the FAA to become a part of your records potfolio. The FAA 141 inspector for you school will often visit and review records as they feel appropriate, but that is where it would normally end.

Actual checkrides for a certificate or ratings are a part of your records.

I considered the company that you are looking at for my initial CFI, and due to my personal experiences, I would go there or go to a similar company instead of the outfit where I stayed. I see nothing wrong with ATP for your ratings, and they hire from their graduates.

 

[ILLINI]

To answer the question as to whether a 141 "Final Lesson" or "Checkride" goes on your record.... well, it depends.

Remember, if you start a 141 program, you cannot count any of your time prior to being enrolled in the 141 program towards the 141 hour requirements (there is an exception which i'll mention later). If you are enrolled in a 141 program and you take your "Final Lesson" with an instructor from your school with examining authority, then no you won't get a pink failure slip. If you fail to meet the requirements of the PTS, the instructor would count the oral and/or flight as just another dual lesson and you will not recieve a pink failure slip. You go back for additional training in the trouble areas and then try again. If you meet all PTS requirements, then the lesson will be counted as your "End of Course Lesson" and you will be issued a graduation certificate and your temporary with a copy going the the FAA.

It is also possible to be enrolled in a 141 program with a 141 school and still getting a pink slip if you don't meet the PTS standards. For example, as I mentioned earlier, you are allowed to credit a certain percentage (I think 25%, but not positive) of previous time towards the 141 hour requirements. However, if you decide to do this, the 141 school loses examining authority and you must take your "ride" with a DE or the FAA. In this situation, if you don't meet the PTS requirements you will be issued a pink failure slip, with a copy going to the FAA for your record. Again, if you pass you will be issued a temporary and graduation certificate from the 141 program. This would also be the case if the 141 school you were enrolled in has not been granted examining authority by the FAA as jaybird mentioned.

In either case, you will be tested on the same areas of operations and tasks, and be held to the same standards. In my opinion, it shouldn't matter if you take a "ride" with a DE, the FAA, or a company instructor with examining authority. If you are ready for it, you will do fine and pass. If you are really concerned about failing, then you're probably not ready and should study a little bit more.